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New Patrick Byrne Podcast/Interview a Must Listen

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Posted by:   bobo 3/12/2008 4:41 AM

First, the link. Here is the entire Patrick Byrne interview. It's a great one. He's lucid, on point, and reveals a lot of backstory detail I for one know about, and know to be true.

It's a largely fair interview, however being the Easter Bunny, I of course found fault once it moved into discussion of naked short selling.

The most annoying part about the interview is this sort of disbelieving tone when it comes to NSS that the interviewer takes. Sort of a, "You'll just need to make up your own mind as to whether there is anything to all this" shtick that is insulting, given the recent rules published by the SEC acknowledging that it is very real, and is a problem. Sort of like saying, "You'll just have to make up your own mind" about whether gravity exists, or the earth is round.

Since when is knowable fact the thing of opinion? And since when did journalism stop being about reporting knowable fact, and instead start being about pretending that everything is a matter of opinion?

The other annoyance is this sort of repetition of every hackneyed attack ever used by the quisling members of the Wall Street suckup brigade. ""Shouldn't you be running your company instead of pursuing this?" "Doesn't this all sound like conspiracy theory?" I understand that the interviewer wants to know why Patrick is doing what he does, but it seems like the description of the looting of the financial system was met with a ho hum, and it was more interesting to ask why Patrick cares whether the bad man is raping the lady next door.

What does that have to do with whether or not this information is knowable, factual, and true? Answer: It doesn't. It is ad hominem. It steers away from whether it is true, and instead goes after the messenger, and attempts to label the data in a pejorative way.

The other thing that is annoying, certainly to me, is the attitude that this is all crazy talk, and couldn't possibly happen. Which ignores the last 1000 years of history, where in fact big money does in fact wield tremendous power, and afford control over virtually every aspect of civilization. Just in the 1930's, we learned in the Pecora hearings, that the banks had in fact done every legal and illegal thing they could think of to rip off the country. The S&L operators did that in the 80's. Time and time again it has happened, and we get the host of the podcast acting as though Patrick is describing flying pigs. Either this is profound ignorance of the most basic fabric of reality, or it is an act.

When Eisenhower warned of the military/industrial complex hijacking the country's agenda, and using the apparatus of the government to further its own agenda of profit making at the expense of the nation (that includes the financial industry), do ya think that was just for fun? Sort of idle chit chat as his last speech to the nation? Off on a drunk?

How can you not be aware of the history of the topics you are discussing? This stuff is only wild eyed if you have zero knowledge of the past.

--------------------------------

Is it just me, or does it now seem as though the largest financial institutions in the US are basically houses of cards? So here is a question. Why did these same banks and brokers pay out tens of billions of dollars just a few short months ago, in bonuses, when it had to be clear that the actual performance of those getting the bonuses was to essentially bankrupt the entities they worked for, by taking extreme risk, and creating junk paper they understood to be junk? Why isn't anyone examining why all those guys get to keep the money, when it was really predicated on a sham?

On a related note, it's kind of fitting that Wall Street's favorite foil for reform, Spitzer, turns out to be a scumbag. That would be Cramer's buddy, and Herb's idol, who is actually now revealed to be a two faced whoref-cker, and apparently one that is overpaying for it, thus a bad shopper or negotiator. Now, don't get me wrong. Nothing wrong with being a john, if you are straightforward about it. Been going on forever, and apparently business is booming. The problem I have here is that you have a guy who holds himself out to be honest guy, filled with ethics and virtue, and he is himself violating the laws he is sworn to uphold. Imagine that. Lying liars and the lies they tell. How completely unexpected.

In yet more footdragging, the SEC is again requesting more comments on tougher naked short selling rules. How many years can the comments be requested? I cannot wait until the newly created NIPC drops their bomb on the SEC. The logic is pretty simple, and nothing new, but it is now synthesized in a way they can't weasel out of. Should be fun to watch them squirm.

Copyright ©2008 Bob O'Brien
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Comments (23)
Re: New Patrick Byrne Podcast/Interview a Must Listen By Anthony on 3/12/2008 8:12 AM
bobo, the interviewers were fair , they covered a lot of ground... Naked Shorting was only first mentioned 1 hour in , why was it nothing annoyed you before this ?
the thruth is anyone trying to distort the naked shorting issue touches a nerve with you .....dont worry your not alone ..many of us feel this way, i freaked with Nazareth's NSS statement ....but dont tell me these interviewers were unfair.

"Shouldn't you be running your company instead of pursuing this?" this is a valid question because the interviewers spoke in great detail about him growing from boxer all they way to the acheivement of OSTK... growing a company from 2 to 800 million in revenues is no easy task , so therefore why would Byrne jeopardize his companys growth to fight shorty ?
Bryne will always get asked this question ,and he will answer it properly like he always does .
Re: New Patrick Byrne Podcast/Interview a Must Listen By bobo on 3/12/2008 8:21 AM
Anthony: Maybe I just got up on the wrong side of the bed. Probably so. The point is, Patrick isn't fighting shorty. He is fighting a cancer in the financial engine, which is typified by NSS. NSS is nothing more than theft and fraud, at its most basic level. It is the financial system stealing money from investors, and not buying the goods it purports to be selling them. Simple. All the rest of the convoluted explanations try to avoid this, as they hope to pretend that a promise to do something later is the same as doing it.

We are now seeing delivery failures in gold, and in silver. Commodities. So the theft isn't just limited to tiny pockets of stock. It is systemic. We are now seeing this cancer morphing into a systemic dishonesty that threatens the global financial stability, as the same crooks who believe it is fine to take money and deliver nothing, foist worthless derivatives off on the planet, while the contraparties are unable to deliver what the derivative promises they deliver. Same game. It's called lying. And fraud.

Just because the banks have come up with elaborate names for lying and committing fraud, and sophisticated vehicles and techniques they can use to defraud, doesn't mean it isn't what it is.

I agree that the interview was largely fair and balanced. I was just annoyed at the sudden shift from really sharp, smart interviewer, to somewhat uninformed, credulous guy.

His position seemed to come from the notion that it is unlikely that huge money and power will abuse those without it. That it is inconceivable that journalists will suck up to money and power - that they are incorruptible. Simple understanding of human nature, history, or statistics, demonstrates that notion to be palpably false. And yet it is the basis of his position. So why does a really smart guy suddenly become the dumbest guy in the room when it comes time to acknowledge the obvious?

Fair question, I think.
Re: New Patrick Byrne Podcast/Interview a Must Listen By particleswaves on 3/12/2008 9:28 AM
Patrick Byrne for President.
Re: New Patrick Byrne Podcast/Interview a Must Listen By another Angle on 3/13/2008 7:20 AM
Bobo,
My take was different than yours of a possible reason for the interview questions. It is doing Byrne a favor to ask him those questions in a face to face interview. Instead of the media saying the same things and giving Byrne no chance to respond, the one interviewer plays the role of "these are all the [dumb] questions that get raised in the media, here's your chance to shoot then down". If I'm Byrne, I welcome those questions if I get to respond to them in a real dialogue. Wouldn't you love to see Byrne get to debate the Weiss's, Greenberg's, Cohodes's, and Mathews's [ooh that last one sort of did happen] in an open forum, with no cutting him off?
Is NSS on Gold possible? By NFI Analyst on 3/13/2008 7:21 AM
Bobo,

I was going to post my question anyway and saw your mention above. I wonder about all the ETFs and other Gold "shares" out there. Apparently the central banks have been selling their physical gold supplies since the mid 90's. But couldn't someone NSS the Gold indexes and ETFs?

How can one measure the NSS problem in Gold & Silver?
Re: New Patrick Byrne Podcast/Interview a Must Listen By NoIHUBFlunky on 3/13/2008 7:22 AM
IHUB implicated by a former Mod for manipulation...Interesting...I always knew the MM's/hedgies and IHUB were bedded together.....



http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/303/ripoff0303141.htm




Report: Investorshub
Category: Business Consultants
Investors Hub They censor any good info on stocks to support shorts Internet
*Consumer Comment ..A little more...
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Respond to this report!
Are you an owner, employee or ex-employee with either negative or positive information about the company or can you provide "insider information" on this company?
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Are you also a victim of the same company or person? Want Justice? File a Ripoff Report and don´t let them get away with it!
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Internet,
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Submitted: 1/24/2008 7:41:51 PM
Modified: 2/19/2008 3:32:45 AM
Reported By
Mr.boutine
newark, New Jersey

How to get Rip-off Revenge
MAJOR SPYWARE, BEWARE! www.investorshub.com

Investors hub is run by several market makers who fund their operations.

http://www.sec.gov/news/press/pressarchive/1999/99-2.txt

They pay the owner of the web site to censor any good info about a company while they short the stock.

http://www.sec.gov/litigation/admin/34-46226.htm

Matt Brown a telly tubby look alike has something called Mod Squads that go around and do a communist style scrub of the board of any news that is true positive and those that go against the companies that pay them.

The reason some of you get the White Boot is that they track IP numbers and your MAC address as well. Your information is then sold to these market makers who call you to buy their stocks.

Its a nifty little scam they have going on. They make money by you subscribing to their self serving website you get booted off if they dont like what you say and if you are a dummy who sings their tune then they invite you into the club. The way the club works is that after they feel comfortable with you are offered the position of being a paid basher.

In other words your job is to bash a stock while the market makers (your employer via Investors Hub sell the stock short) How do I know all of this because I was a mod on this site and when this was offered to me in good conscience I could not do it.

When I asked them about this I was booted off and they assigned 15 bashers to the multiple boards where I was a mod or I held stock positions and they bashed the company and me to no end.

Mr.boutine
newark, New Jersey
U.S.A.





Re: New Patrick Byrne Podcast/Interview a Must Listen By theTurtle on 3/13/2008 7:22 AM
Bob

I agree with you 100%. I didn't pick up on this at first, but after reading what you wrote and listening again, I think you are spot on.

theTurtle
Re: New Patrick Byrne Podcast/Interview a Must Listen By Valueinvestor on 3/13/2008 7:23 AM
Bobo: I had the exact same reaction as you...I thought the interview was moving along quite nicely, rather quite fairly, not too obseqeious, not too pushy, up until the point when the subject of naked shorting came up...it is mind boggling no matter what your deep beliefs are in this area for the interviewers to allege conspiracy theories to Patrick and pretend to convey the so-called "normal world" views of his efforts in this space as those of a wacko obsessed with some global meltdown theory...then they top it off with "should'nt you be minding your own business" ? I thought Patrick would reply "but this is my business !!! I can treble revenues for OSTK by landing one soft punch on the brokerage houses I sued !!!"..it goes to show, assuming these two chaps were innocent and not corrupted like many other reporters, that much of the press and reporting cadre in this country has a very long way to go in taking their collective heads out of the arses of the crooked and dangerously gone awry establishment...I was actually marvelling how Patrcick did not lose his cool and chew these guys out for saying the things that they did in such a supposed harmless tone...completely amateurish...it lessened the impact of the entire interview for me since the interviewers obviously did not have much substance...it is time for Patrick to seek out interviewers with some substance who ask tough, intelligent questions not just of Patrcik but also of the other wall street leaders related to NSS, especially the ones who are not overtly imbedded in this sham...
Re: New Patrick Byrne Podcast/Interview a Must Listen By Patrick Byrne on 3/14/2008 5:34 PM
Bob et. al.,

It is interesting to read your comments. Bob, in general, caustic irony is your most attractive feature, but in this case (much though your defense is appreciated) you may have gotten up on the wrong side of bed. I for one was fine with the questions that Cade and Ashlee asked. In some sense, yes, reporters are doing me favors to ask these questions, even in highly skeptical ways, if they give me a chance to answer. I think these are good reporters, and it is telling that they work for a British publication. - Patrick
Re: New Patrick Byrne Podcast/Interview a Must Listen By mhelburn on 3/14/2008 5:35 PM
Patrick controlled the interview. He didn't apologize or hedge anything. He just told it like it is. He's dealing from a position of strength. He's dead-on about disbanding the SEC. They are a roadblock to honest markets. Bureaucratic constipation...
Re: New Patrick Byrne Podcast/Interview a Must Listen By Counterfeiting on 3/14/2008 5:36 PM
I don't like the phrase "naked shorting" as the problem is deeper than that.

The problem is that everyone from the prime brokerages to the clearing brokerages only partially back share entitlements with real shares. Even if the sellers sell what they believe are real shares (no naked shorting involved), the buyer may not receive a real share.

The miscreants like the phrase "naked shorting" as it misdirects from what is really going on.

Some examples:

- prime brokerages aggregate obligations into a cash amount, then net it against cash amounts owing to them by other members of the prime brokerage cartel

- funds can enter into swap agreements where they agree to swap obligations with their bank. For example, they can agree to pay the bank interest on a million dollars if the bank agrees to pay them back the upside on a particular stock. That allows the fund to short with no risk and the bank allows them to do the trade without any real shares to back it (as the risk to the fund is covered)

- shorts can go into repurchase agreements instead of borrowing stock. The repo has all the feel of a loan and a short, but it is a long sale. Both sides of the agreement are longs, because the SEC says a futures contract to buy is the same as being long in the stock.

- desking

- etc.

The problem is the industry stopped seeing themselves as a broker facilitating a transaction between buyer and seller or as a custodian holding someone else's assets in trust.

Just as banks only fractionally back deposits, the brokerage industry has decided to only fractionally back stock ownership. This is way bigger than shorting.


Re: New Patrick Byrne Podcast/Interview a Must Listen By rtway on 3/14/2008 5:37 PM
My answer to Anthony is that I too become angered not so much by the interviewer but rather what he represents. He like so much of our ill informed and media guided populace tend to believe what is on the tube or radio or print as absolute proof. Throw in Wiki also. When you see the rain and feel the rain and realize you are getting wet, what the hell is left to convince you it is friggin raining and you should react. can't make it simpler than than that. when the dumbass in charge of the SEC says there is problem and you read all the other proof on this web site which I am sure this guy did prior to the interview, why would ask such dumb ass questions about the problem instead of asking how to fix it. I'm with Bobo.
Re: New Patrick Byrne Podcast/Interview a Must Listen By Millerd1 on 3/14/2008 5:37 PM
I am sorry, I think Partick for Chief SEC Commissioner would be far more effective than asking him to think of the Presidency.

Then again if this NSS isn't stop a 1929 echo is headed our way.
Re: New Patrick Byrne Podcast/Interview a Must Listen By bobo on 3/14/2008 8:25 PM
Counterfeiting: You are dead on correct. Fractional backing of stock ownership, with bank acting as the stock Fed. Completely illegal and wrong.

Patrick. I realized after I listened to it a second time I was being reactionary, and my response was as much at an overall annoyance at the media as to anything these guys were saying. But, pimples and all, the blog is what it is. Sometimes I call them out when they are in. Sometimes the reverse. Saw you on Cavuto, and that was way more the style of interview that does you justice, although have to agree that this one was one of the easiest to follow.

Here's a link to Cavuto:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=J8xG-nU81Do
Re: New Patrick Byrne Podcast/Interview a Must Listen By Valueinvestor on 3/15/2008 9:55 AM
Bobo and Patrick…allow me if you please to explain further my part frustration of Patrick’s interview…just as rtway mentioned, it is not that the interviewers were unkind…in fact, they were quite polite when they appeared to be doing more of a biographical investigation of Patrick rather than getting to the meat of the substance for most listeners…and when they did get to the substance, they “suddenly” went from interviewing to becoming “the devil’s advocate”…it was so obvious…what bothers me the most is not what they said or how Patrick responded…it was that after all that is out there a reporter would ask the questions in such a childish manner as though he was pretending to be say Kramer’s paid stooge…personally, I am frustrated at the sheer lack of any credible victory by all who see and mouth about this crime and are unable to do much with it except keep blaming the entire world and consuming blog space…yes, the entire justice system grinds much too slowly…but for crying out loud, this is not some murder investigation, where things on purpose have to move in a deliberate and careful fashion, because someone’s life is at stake…we are talking about “day light” robbery of the common man in a supposed civilized and advanced, democratic country…it is time each and every one took up his or her own pet peeve for becoming incensed with this whole thing and did something about it rather than keep shooting in the wind…OSTK has gone from 40$ to under 10$ in a period of months, in the face of the famous GF clause being revoked, and the investors in the company’s stock who have been hammered are told you got to wait for at least five more years before you recoup anything, if at all…the same is true for many other stocks and their hapless stockholders who do not, in the main, have time to spend on blogs such as these, debating the merits of an interview with a leader in the space of NSS…there has to be a better, more effective way to get results and put the crooks behind bars…my pet peeve is with USXP…I have alerted Senator Nelson of Fl to my story…I have the office of the inspector general of the SEC promise the senator and myself to look into the NSS story in USXP…according to most experts the NSS story on USXP is much further along than OSTK or even EATC, yet I see no one discuss that story here, and everyone avoiding it like the plague…folks are afraid to tackle a real battle, happening in real time, and are generally content to fight imaginary ones with no real foreseeable and realistically timed outcomes…I am not saying Patrick will not be successful or that Bobo’s leadership role in this space has not been exemplary...what I am saying is that we need to make sure we all understand that the attention span of most folks is rightfully rather limited when it comes to abstract themes such as fighting wall street on naked shorting or illegal practices, since they have a better life to live beyond one that involves money…pardon me for my obvious frustration at the manner this whole thing is proceeding, but I had to get it out of the way…
Re: New Patrick Byrne Podcast/Interview a Must Listen By stryker-ny on 3/15/2008 9:56 AM
Patrick.....WOWSER!!!!! great interview..I didn't realize Spitzer was running interference for some large Hedge Funds on Wall Street...what an arrogant, egotistic dolt...it was BAD KARMA.that slew the beast...all the best Patrick..you are a real hero here......
Re: New Patrick Byrne Podcast/Interview a Must Listen By Jeremiah 9:24 on 3/15/2008 9:57 AM
Just watched Dr. Byrne on Cavuto. What a great interview (except he should have gotten 30 minutes not 5); I am pleasantly shocked that Cavuto played him straight, and let him talk. Every time Dr. Byrne shows up in public I go onto Overstock.com and buy something else, just because....

BobO, when are you going to give us some information on the new investor protection 501(c)(3) and how we can participate? I know at least one person who intends to provide significant assistance.

As an aside, it is repulsive to see the Federal Reserve using the US taxpayer to bail out the corrupt bastards that run Bear Stearns. All these bastards know that their protectors at the Fed will not let them fail, which is why they take such stupid risks--ultimately they are betting with taxpayer money. In fact they are not stupid risks, these bastards just know the entire game is rigged for their benefit. And think about the SOB's that run all these corrupt organizations--they get paid tens or hundreds of millions of dollars (knowing what was coming, they should have demanded euros or yen) for their failures. All this inflation you see and will feel for the next decade or more--including of course energy and food, forced on the US taxpayer to bail out these corrupt organizations. (OK, part of it is the result of the fools in Congress and their stupid short sighted actions in every aspect of the economy and our lives that they slither into).

Don't get me started on Goldman and their "lucky" moves in shorting the subprime markets. Who's the treasury secretary again?

Now on to Overstock.com....
Re: New Patrick Byrne Podcast/Interview a Must Listen By Jeremiah 9:24 on 3/15/2008 9:57 AM
One more question for you BobO, if Bear Stearns does go down, where will the resting place be for all those equity delivery failures sitting at Bear's clearing division resulting from its prime brokerage activities? Will they have to start seizing assets of their hedge fund clients to clean up that mess?

Refco's mess is still out there, somewhere.

I have it on good authority that everyone reaps what (s)he sows. Looks like we are going to live to see at least some of these financial masters pay the tab.
Re: New Patrick Byrne Podcast/Interview a Must Listen By ginger on 3/15/2008 9:55 AM
Bear Strearns has 118 M shares O/S but 186 M shares traded on Friday...

Down 27 to $30

http://www.stockhouse.ca/comp_info.asp?symbol=BSC&table=NYSE

Re: New Patrick Byrne Podcast/Interview a Must Listen By bobo on 3/15/2008 10:03 AM
Jeremiah: You still don't get it, do you? This isn't firm specific. It is the entire brokerage industry playing fractional ownership of stock - they have leached trillions of actual dollars out of the suckers (investors) knowing that now that they own the clearing system, they never have to deliver hard assets - just chits, of which they can print unlimited numbers. They keep redeeming the chits for cash whenever a rube wants to sell, thus enabling them to act as though the chits are the same as the assets, however that is just a ponzi scheme - it works until there is a run on the bank, at which point the system crashes and seizes.

That's why the Fed is now going to pledge the assets of the next three generations to underwrite the criminal activity of Wall Street. It's not about Bear or Goldman, it is that the entire system is predicated upon a lie, and those in power completely understand that if they put a stop to it tomorrow the problem is so pervasive it would shut the country down, and possibly much of the world. Because we have exported our criminality and our liabilities to those stupid enough to play in our markets, wherever they are.

Refco is out there. Bear's is out there. It is the whole infected system, a prostitute with AIDS which continues its unsafe coupling with all stupid enough to approach.
Re: New Patrick Byrne Podcast/Interview a Must Listen By Jeremiah 9:24 on 3/16/2008 9:10 AM
BobO,

I get it, believe me I get it. I am hopeful that at some point the industry will turn on its customers (the hedge fund crowd) and give them the pirhana treatment, since at some point, like Bear, they are gonna be reaching for liquidity wherever they can get it. Granted, they are often the left and right hands of the same criminals.

Are you going to want any assistance with the 501(c)(3)? That was my main question. When do you think you might be able to give us an idea of what is coming?

Re: New Patrick Byrne Podcast/Interview a Must Listen By mhelburn on 3/16/2008 9:12 AM
We still have not heard the positions that Refco held. BSC is toxic in the same way. With the brokers demanding more collateral for municipals from hedge funds, they are forcing the prices down with liquidation. Nothing is safe here.

UBS is trying to unload its brokerage. That has to be toxic. Liz Moyer covered this UBS naked shorting of Sedona http://www.forbes.com/business/2006/08/29/naked-shorts-sedona-louisiana-cx_lm_0829naked.html

These brokers took out the money when the dollar was higher. Now they devalue the currency. The money went somewhere from this theft... did it all go out in bonuses? The SEC allowed the counterfeiting, ran interference for years and now 4 years later, they have done nothing except state that it is happening and make a rule that scienter has to be present. Chris Cox gave a hint that he knows that the size is huge.. His comment about someone buying all the outstanding shares and then millions of shares being traded seems as peculiar to him as it has been to the rest of us for the last many years. That statement is the most positive thing I've heard. The WS crowd can't bamboozle him with some explanation... of liquidity, or miscounting... or insiders selling unregistered shares. It is now public record and the top guy at the SEC knows. He knew the grandfathering was bogus. That should never have been put in place and did nothing. No one knows the extent of the fails with the various counterfeiting mechanisms in place and the ways these are hidden. All of these have to be addressed.
Re: New Patrick Byrne Podcast/Interview a Must Listen By davidn on 3/16/2008 9:46 AM
A stock that traded at $1000 Canadian five years ago and still trading at $1000 Canadian today would have gone from $606 USD to $1011 USD, creating the illusion of a 67% increase in share price even as the share price stayed flat.

If you haven't made at least 67% on your stock portfolio in the last five years, you are losing money.

By devaluing the currency, the counterfeiter banksters gaming the system can create the illusion of a stock market run at the same time that the obligation represented by the chits plummets in value. Time is on their side as they delay and delay until they finally honor the obligation with much cheaper money.

Oil and gold compete with the dollar as a global reserve currency as countries can use oil or gold to pay for imports. When you price stocks in units of oil or gold from four years ago, the whole market has been in a horrible bear since Bobo started this site. They hide it from you by devaluing the currency.

It would be as if they changed the ruler from twelve inches to ten inches. Things that used to be five feet long would suddenly be six feet long, giving the illusion of a 20% increase. By making the dollar smaller, they make it seem like stocks are running.

The thing that pisses me off is that the miscreates at Bear Stearns all got their bonuses, with no repercussions and the whole problem will be foisted on the taxpayers both through direct bail outs and inflation/currency devaluation.

Take a look at GATA - it has the hypothesis that gold is also only fractionally backed and that the gold in Fort Knox is gone (leased out through long term repurchase agreements to counterparties who may have no ability to repay when the obligation comes due in thirty years).

http://www.gata.org/

I look at NFI again and see what they criminals did. They sold AAA bonds they knew should be worthless, guaranteed the first 5% of the mortgages, then shorted all the subprime lenders to oblivion, knowing that if they ever had to honor the 5%, it would imply that the their huge naked short would be paying off.

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