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Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid?

Location: Blogs Bob O'Brien's Sanity Check Blog    
Posted by:   bobo 1/6/2007 3:11 PM

Back in 1934, after months of Congressional hearings run by Ferdinand Pecora, wherein every imaginable variety of scam, fraud, scheme, larcenous undertaking, flim-flam, and cheat surfaced as the standard operating procedure of Wall Street's biggest names, the SEC was formed, amidst much howling from Wall Street, which threatened dire and ominous predictions of doom and economic collapse if anyone dared to attempt to regulate its "perfect system."

Perfect for the cheats on Wall Street, that is.

The industry fought any regulation tooth and nail, and when it became obvious that the public would require it after the Pecora hearings, went to work to gut any proposal. Indeed, commentators at the time stated that the final bill that passed, creating the SEC, had been so gutted as to be a non-issue for the industry, removing any prosecution power, and watering down the proposed hard and fast rules to the point where it could be said no actual rules had been passed - those were sort of left up to the SEC, which was immediately chaired by one of the most notorious stock pool operators of the century: Joe Kennedy.

As part of the gutting of the bill, a system of self-regulation was proposed. Somehow, all the lying, cheating, scamming, fraud and such would be harder if the cheats all had to work together, and regulate themselves.

That has never worked, from day one. The notion itself is preposterous. Sort of like saying that embezzlers could self-regulate the banking industry, or that drug addicts could self-regulate the controlled substance distribution system - no, better yet, that gangs could self-regulate crime in the inner city.

It is silly on its face, and the woeful and demonstrably flawed history of the self regulating entities is a testament to human nature's continued inability to change. Consider that the biggest crash of all time took place after all this self-regulation was in place, decimating the nation's economy to the enrichment of the short players on Wall Street.

It was always a lie, just as the notion that, "Your government wants what is best for you" is a lie. Our founding fathers knew that was a lie, and warned against any federal apparatus that would concentrate power away from the states and the individual. That warning was subsequently ignored. And here we are.

Like many big whoppers, the public was always supposed to believe that self-regulation could work. Wall Street spent millions to assure the masses that it would. Never mind that there is no other example to draw from where it has - certainly not in government, and in no other industry I can think of where big money is involved.

Oh, and did I mention that the same guys who were supposed to be able to regulate themselves were the ones just revealed to be the most larcenous miscreants ever imagined, in the Pecora hearings' shocking testimony?

In today's WSJ commentary piece, William Donaldson and Harvey Pitt, two astoundingly inefficient and forgettable ex-SEC commissioners, chime in to laud the new self-regulation scheme of a merged NYSE/NASD entity.

Lost on them seems to be the clear and demonstrable evidence that self-regulation doesn't work, like the recent revelation from the Senate Judiciary's hearing on the topic of insider trading that insider trading is pervasive in today's markets. If self-regulation worked, how could it be? How could those busy self-regulating also be the ones violating insider trading laws?

Even in the commentary piece, they say, "The self-regulatory status quo does not work." No kidding. So self-regulation as it stands today doesn't work, but a merged entity predicated upon the same silly notions will? 10 monkeys trying to use a hammer to loosen a screw is going to work better than one.

I see.

That Wall Street was able to con the Congress back in the 30s into believing that Wall Street could self-regulate, or rather, that the public could be convinced that it could, is stunning. That this farce could continue as long as it has is even more stunning. That the talking heads now accept this gibberish from another era as wisdom, is pathetic.

Here's another bit of gibberish from the 1930s that was passed, amidst considerable protest from those who could think: Social security numbers.

The biggest problem many critics had with issuing social security numbers was that it would devolve into a national identification system, conflicting with constitutional rights of the individual to not have to participate in such a scheme. At the time, the public and Congress was assured that at no point would or could the SS # ever be used as a de facto ID number, literally required to do anything in the US. Fast forward to present, where it is required to be employed, get credit, get a driver's license, buy a house, open a bank account, etc. etc. etc.

The idea that it wouldn't be used by a government intent upon expanding its reach far beyond that allowed by the Constitution and Bill of Rights was always ludicrous. Nobody believed it at the time, and their cynicism was well justified. Nobody should believe that an industry routinely shown to be as corrupt as any envisioned can regulate itself. There is no basis for that idea. None in recorded history. None. Ever. No Utopian civilization exists where absolute power didn't corrupt absolutely. Self-regulation is the creation of a monopoly, where the participants in the monopoly get to decide which among them is to be punished for which transgressions. That is stupidity of the lowest order, and for the life of me I never cease to be amazed by commentary pieces like this one.

Pure, unadulterated horse poop. To put it kindly. And apparently, Wall Street is busy selling this fecal material as the new old wisdom, trotting out warhorses to spin the story for the unwashed mouthbreathers that are we, the public.

Is anyone buying this?

Let those who routinely pay token fines for bilking the public, who participated in massive schemes to defraud investors (like the mutual fund front running scheme, or the specialist scam, or any of the other examples), police themselves.

Sure thing. Perhaps pedophiles policing child molesters? Oh, wait, we just had that. Perhaps the Church self-regulating against bad priests? Oh, wait, that didn't work, either.

I could go on and on and on.

But what's the point? They clearly believe you and I are stupid, and that if it is printed in the WSJ, it must be true, or smart, or something superior.

And people wonder why I'm cynical...

Copyright ©2007 Bob O'Brien
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Comments (74)
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By clearthinker on 1/6/2007 5:03 PM
Anyone who doubts the veracity of the Sanitycheck need go no further than watch the Gary Aguirre/SEC/Judiciary Committee hearing last month. Specter sums it up best.....

TROUBLING...to say the least....
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By Craig on 1/6/2007 5:39 PM
I'd rather have the SROs regulate the stock exchanges than the government but the SEC needs to provide good oversight of the SRSs. If you think the SROs are bad - imagine how backward the regulation would be if the government was doing the regulating and the oversight - that would be a worse conflict of interest than we presently have. We don't see good oversight coming from the SEC - some shaking up definitely needs to go on over there.

Even if NFI ends up in the garbage pile, if will NOT have been for nothing.

We will get reform - it will take some time, some work, some screaming, and some patience - but it will come.
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By old duffer on 1/7/2007 7:20 PM
rtway1, the Gov. is way ahead on the subject of emigation....They make that door costly...if I understand it right you now pay a 50% tax on any amount of cash of assets you leave with over $500,000. And I think the IRS sends you a bill for some years after you leave on your earnings over there.

If anyone here knows for sure could you let us know. TIA
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By Bobo on 1/7/2007 7:57 PM
Humble servant: It must be nice to live in a universe where the laws of supply and demand don't control price - as must be the universe where supply of stock doesn't impact price. In the case of fraud like Enron, the real question is how many shares were printed by the system for the profit of those doing the selling, speculating on a complete collapse? You don't know that answer. Neither do I. One of us understands what we both don't know.

Duffer: The IRS views your cash assets as theirs, to the tune of 50%, even if you have already paid all taxes on it - everything over $500K. This represents the first time in history that the US penalizes its citizens for wanting to leave. We have traditionally been a place where folks want to come and stay. Our government has made the determination that citizens are really a sort of property, with their earnings the property of the federal system. The logic is that if they died, the government would see 50% from estate taxes, thus why not just take it now if they want to find somewhere more hospitable.

Truth. Sort of like the Soviet Union also used to penalize its citizenry when it wanted to leave. Made it really, really hard. But in a new twist, the US also maintains that any money you make working elswhere is also theirs. Why? Just because. We are one of the very few countries in the world that takes that position, which is based in no other logic than that the US is big enough to be unfair to its citizens, even if they have left. Nazi Germany also would take the position that even after germans left, that they were still the property of the motherland, subject to its justice and taxes.

Is everyone getting how the similarities are not all that positive? Let's see - Germany and Soviets, currency controls, requiring "papers" to travel and do most anything internal, view population as property of government, take stance that they are not subject to international law. US, has criminalized cash via reporting any withdrawals over $3K as well as any substantial purchases or exchanges involving cash (ostensibly due to "war on drugs" - which is a larger business than ever as far as I can tell). US, requires SS# for most everything now, in violation of its own laws - and is now putting GPS chips in passports and drivers licenses, and pushing for mandatory national ID card (all part of the "War on Terror", of course). US, views all income of citizenry its property, even after renouncing citizenship - take the view that doesn't matter and that the citizen is a subject of the country, not a resident. US, views international law and Geneva convention as optional, well, because it is the US.

Does everyone get that the big lie has been sold for so long now, that doing away with property rights a la stock certificates and genuine shares is merely a logical step in all this? Imminent domain treats your home as the government's if it needs it. Your income is the government's, and it always needs it. Why not your stock, too?

Wake up, people. Really. Wake up.

Even the notion that our markets are the most advanced are now being shown to be a lie, as anyone with a brain votes with their feet, elsewhere. I suppose if we keep repeating our mantras of superiority long enough, we will cease to require any external confirmations. Either that, or have to be blind, deaf and dumb.

Same thing happened to England when it faded from being a super-power to an also ran. Same thing always happens.

We have outsourced our once mighty manufacturing elsewhere, and now we make virtually nothing.

We have outsourced most of our engineering now, as engineering naturally fits better wherever things are manufactured.

We are outsourcing our customer service and human interaction functions elsewhere to reduce costs.

Pretty soon all we will be doing is selling wood-framed stucco boxes to one another for ever greater amounts of less desirable currency, and selling each other burgers and financial products and rap records and health care - which is even now being outsourced methodically to offshore radiology reading banks and the like.

The current trend we are seeing in Wall Street is nothing more than this inevitable destruction of our pre-eminence in anything. The attitude is grab what you can while you can, because the ship is headed for an iceberg.

My opinion, as usual.
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By TheFixIsIn on 1/7/2007 9:31 PM
This laxadaisical attitude is why farm goods can sell for less than it costs to produce the food or resources can sell for less than the cost to mine them.

Prices are set by supply and demand of futures contracts, which inevitably cancel out before delivery is ever required.

The problem is that we have set up a system that makes the people running the system and funds with enough money to price fix rich, while the rest of us suffer real world consequences. Real companies go bankrupt and real workers lose family farms.

Maybe supply and demand isn't a good way to set prices - who knows - but it is absolute BS that the system is being advertized as an auction market when it isn't. That's fraud.
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By TheFixIsIn on 1/7/2007 9:33 PM
My point is that it is supply and demand of the derivitive IOU's that sets price, not the supply and demand of the underlying asset.
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By bbhindyou on 1/8/2007 5:05 AM
bobo it does my old jaded soul good to see someone else understand the depths of the decay we face.
The power the strong seek to have is not new.The desire to have this type of power over others is older than anyone knows and is hard for most to understand but it runs through history and will always take root where ever it is not continually fought against.
The problem has always been to make others see the power grab for what it is.
Bobo you see clearly.
Thank you for sharing your vision with others.

As alway with more daily I will bbhindyou.
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By bbhindyou on 1/8/2007 5:57 AM
Anyone who tries to claim to be your humble servant is most likely to be trying to make you be theirs.
Case in point : Internal revenue service
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By dovp on 1/8/2007 7:38 AM
Look at the chart of DOVP. It was moved from the Nasdaq senior board to the pink sheets, falling from $25 to 25 cents in less than a year. They had problems with one of their clinical trials, but their real problem was a death spiral they signed, requiring immediate repayment of the debenture if they were delisted from Nasdaq. Someone naked shorted them until they fell below $1, triggering a default, which will now enable the naked short to cover and collect near 100% of investors' money.

http://biz.yahoo.com/e/070103/dovp.pk8-k.html

We're not talking chicken feed here - thing of all the $100's of millions of investors' money that went into this one stock alone. Now the asset will likely change hands and the investors will eat a 100% loss.

Their gain went into someone's pockets.
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By bbhindyou on 1/8/2007 8:05 AM
dovp
The new trials run by the new owner of the asset will turn out fine ,unless it causes profit loss to the new owners previous products.
How many new assets die this way?
We will never know.
Thanks mom and pop investor for taking it to this point but we'll take it from here ,literally.
Death spirial finance company makes money,naked shorter makes money,new technology gets taken over cheap.
What a system.
Under the thumb.
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By gregcable2002 on 1/8/2007 8:54 AM
Great read bobo,to be sure there is an internment camp near where we live set aside for folks who will not bow down.
Its getting scary out there. By newspaper on 1/8/2007 8:56 AM
Throughout 99.9 percent of history society was ruled by a pyramid structure.

King –chiefs at the top lord’s right below and the peasants and rabble (us) at the bottom.

That changed- and in America a few decades back we had a diamond. The ultra wealthy at the top but the fat part in the middle was us the middle class.

The middle was educated they could read and write and perhaps build wealth.

A few years back the American dream was still attainable. A starter family could afford a starter house. People were not living paycheck to paycheck and the gap between poor and rich was not as wide as it is now. My father bought his modest house 30 years ago with a modest paycheck. Today he could not afford to buy the same house even though he works full time in the same job.

In NYC in certain neighborhoods there exists one of the largest gaps between the poor and the rich. There are People living in NY who make 40m a year right next to people who work full time just to make less than minimum wage.

The diamond in the US is started to change back into a pyramid the fat part (middle class) is thinning. The base of the diamond is getting fat again as the middle thins (at the base are the poor).
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By old duffer on 1/8/2007 10:52 AM
Thanks Bobo, you and others of us here see what most Americans have no clue of and would laugh you away even if you PROVED IT! They would just never admit it...Sad!

I liken this and many other things a few see and shout about as being like the deaf man standing in the middle of a road unaware that a truck is bearing down on him. But fortunatly for him you can see what is coming and try to make him aware. It is reasonable to think he would repond to you warnings and move out of the way.Well in the case of what goes on in the Markets and Government the deaf do not care or even want to know. A real mystery!
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By Iona Hogbin on 1/8/2007 11:16 AM
I always thought Cramer was a schizophrenic.

Jim Cramer: Worth the boo-yah?
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/CramerBetterWithoutBellsAndWhistles.aspx

There are two Jim Cramers.

On CNBC, he is cable television's Mr. Hyde, a shrill, hyperactive tsunami of opinions about stocks. A June MarketWatch column critical of his shenanigans sparked a blizzard of responses, with reader e-mail fairly evenly divided, underscoring the notion that people, quite clearly, love or hate Cramer.

In his Jekyll incarnation, Cramer is the restrained, informative author of "The Bottom Line" column that runs in New York magazine. When you read one of his pieces on investing, the word that jumps out is "authentic." He sure knows his stuff.

"He sure knows his stuff."????

The only thing he knows is how to lie. And he bragged about that to the world.

E-mail us your comments on this article
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By Iona Hogbin on 1/8/2007 11:18 AM
Clarification:

MSN wants us to e-mail our comments on this article:

Jim Cramer: Worth the boo-yah?
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By who gets cheap debt? on 1/8/2007 11:21 AM
"Look at the chart of DOVP. It was moved from the Nasdaq senior board to the pink sheets, falling from $25 to 25 cents in less than a year. They had problems with one of their clinical trials, but their real problem was a death spiral they signed, requiring immediate repayment of the debenture if they were delisted from Nasdaq. Someone naked shorted them until they fell below $1, triggering a default, which will now enable the naked short to cover and collect near 100% of investors' money."

same short squeeze ambush, different stock...calpine energy...cited as most efficient converter of natural gas to electric energy with newest assets back in late 90s.
then we had our dilitante gubmint quickly change utility rataes to "free market pricing" complete with phony platt energy rates. add some enron machiavelli. and california bleeded. cali state officials stepped in & forced decreases in electric rates & cut back on financing calpine plants.
to complete their financing, all sorts of PIPES got involved. they squeezed them in debt. their share price went fron $90s to under $1 to bankruptcy with these vultures just salivating to gut the company & grab their valuable assets.
how incredible that sounds now as we watch private equity & hedgies get such easy debt financing for themselves that banks & brokers lavish upon them.

it's about time we investigated the asset flow in this country. the fed reserve gives major reserve banks free money to conduct business FOR THE PEOPLE. how are they lending out this money??? why are hedgies & private equity getting easy loans when they have no transparent accounting for their assets & liablities.
who is making money off our deposited funds.
why did fed reserve members get guaranteed 6% interest on their deposits when the fed reduced interest rates for the rest of us to nearly 1% in the 90s.
why can little not profit on his earned capital like big finance can??
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By Your Humble Servant on 1/8/2007 1:54 PM
Dear Bobo,

Demand is driven soley by the perceived value of the stock, not scarcity. The sooner you realize that the better off you'll be. The other fallacy you labor under is that previous earnings in the form of cash in the bank waiting to be distributed to shareholders drives the value of a stock, NFI, it is future earnings that drive the value. Dishing out cash in the bank to shareholders merely reduces the value of the shares by the same amount dished out.

Your Humble Servant
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By Your Humble Servant on 1/8/2007 2:10 PM
Dear Cheap Debt,

Losing $60M/yr on $5M/yr of revenue and then having your hoped for product flop is what drives $25 stocks to 25 cents. Now they are broke. Being broke isn't good for a stock price regardless of how many or few shares their are.

It is unfortunate that small investors buy shares of speculative biotech companies and then lose their entire investment, they should consider a professionally managed fund in the future.

Your Humble Servant
To Your Humble Servant : By tommytoyz on 1/8/2007 2:51 PM
You said:
"Demand is driven soley by the perceived value of the stock, not scarcity."

The point is that PRICE is a function of demand AND supply (scarcity). Increase supply and the price goes down with constant demand. Everyone understands this.

Scarcity (Supply), is what delivery failures manipulates. That's how the price is manipulated. This is very simple to understand.
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By dovp on 1/8/2007 2:52 PM
They didn't lose $60 million. They had $60 million in the bank.

The nature of biotech companies is they lose money until they are able to get approved by the FDA.

They had an asset that may or may not have value, but the point of my post is that they are suddenly being forced to repay a $70 million loan. The ONLY reason this is the case is that they were naked shorted below $1.
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By STOCKGATE TODAY on 1/8/2007 3:16 PM
STOCKGATE TODAY
An online newspaper reporting the issues of Securities Fraud

For Sale, Market Making Exemptions – January 8, 2007

David Patch

"Our concern is that people are registering as market makers just to get the [short sale] exemption," said Tom Gira at the Security Traders Association's annual conference. "But the exemption is limited to bona fide market making."

While short selling reforms and short selling practices are becoming ever growing concerns of investors and issuers alike, regulators continue to maintain loosely controlled market exemptions to market makers who are setting up shop to simply gain leverage over the remainder of the investing public. Leverage the SEC has recently identifies as having the potentials to manipulate the price of securities.

While Gira may not represent the securities regulators by his comments, two separate NASD alerts to members would indicate that his concerns are not necessarily unfounded. The NASD submitting a September 2006 and December 2006 warning to market makers that there are limits to what exemptions can be taken relative to market making operations vs. proprietary trading activities.

In the August notice to members the NASD clarified that "the SEC stated that bona fide market making does not include transactions whereby a market maker enters into an arrangement with another broker-dealer or customer in an attempt to use the market maker's exception for the purpose of avoiding compliance with the locate requirement by the other broker-dealer or customer." But market making, which has been around for a considerable amount of time, has never been allowed such usage so why are regulators only now finding that they must send seasoned members notices like this?

By making such a bold statement, we can rest assure that audits of the bona fide market making exemption has revealed such illegal tactics have taken place in the past and most likely continue to take place today. Partially because of the heavy reliance on the honor system of self regulation..

"It's very easy to hang on the box and never really provide liquidity, yet benefit by being an exempt market maker," Gira said. A true market maker is not "somebody who goes in the box and all they do is sell."

But sell they do sit in the box and only sell and such selling, utilizing the market making exemption in the process, is what generates fails in the settlement system and provides the necessary sell side leverage to drive down stock values. Bear Raids – sanctioned by your local federal regulator.

How integrated is this strategy in market making operations?

"This is going to have a serious impact on our ability to make markets," Mark Madoff, co-director of trading at Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities, said of the SEC's plan to eliminate the grandfather clause of Regulation SHO. Effectively, Madoff contends that the elimination of the grandfather clause would eliminate the indefinite amount of time a market maker will have to settle a trade executed under the bona-fide market making exemption and cut into their profits.

Oh to have to play these markets like the rest of the investing public.

Putting Madoff and Gira's comments into common context, it would appear that investors with a sell side [short] trading strategy are setting up shop as market makers to sell short what they would otherwise not be able to short if they acted as an individual investor. In using the market making exemption, the operation will not only be able to sell short without the expense of a stock borrow but can also control the markets as a market maker in the stock selling by more and more shares into any upside volume controlling the price and any short position liabilities.

When this market making exemption was originally created, the emphasis was on creating "temporary" liquidity where there was a significant delta between the buy side and the sell side of a market. The laws intended that in solving some of these temporary liquidity issues, stock volatility would be minimized and natural liquidity would evolve into the markets.

But "temporary" in market making has evolved over time and now market makers are taking this to mean "indefinite". Market makers are now selling short, using the exemption from the stock-borrowing requirement, and are failing to flatten out and close these positions within reasonable standards of time. Instead, they are making this a sell only trading strategy with the exemption providing the leverage necessary for themselves and clients to protect profits.

Market making for sale, Cheap prices exceptional profits!

In 2003 the SEC recognized the risks settlement failures were creating in the market and passed a reform in June 2004 to tighten down the duration of time a failed trade can linger in the markets. The SEC conveniently added a clause to this law however to protect the massive level of pre-existing fails that existed previously. The clause, referred to as the grandfather clause, allowed for all pre-existing fails to be exempt from any mandatory closeout and future shorting restrictions.

Now that the SEC provided the industry over 2 years to clean up these "grandfathered fails" they are looking to rescind such a clause identifying it as an unnecessary loophole. And for that the industry threatens their ability to sufficiently regulate market volatility.

All I want to know is this; if market makers can't make a market without massive and indefinite naked short selling, and market makers are setting up shop to specifically circumvent the shorting requirements as an investor, who funded the market makers to execute this type of trading strategy?

Could these market making operations be the brainchild of short interest investors who finance these operations in exchange for the trade exemption? In the case of Scott Ryan and his market making firm Ryan and Co. that is partially what the NASD has implied.

In 2005 the NASD barred Ryan for executing short sales on behalf of three hedge funds using the exemption now being referenced as the means to short securities that otherwise could not be shorted by the funds. Tom Gira, by his comments, appears to think of this as a more prevalent practice than what the public is led to believe exists and what the regulators have done by way of enforcement activities.

Now of course this is only speculation on my part about the degree to which a market maker is setting up shop and selling their exemptions but, over recent years the SEC and NASD have proven beyond a shadow of doubt that illegal short selling has been a prevalent yet un-enforced factor in our securities markets.

For more on this issue please visit the Host site at www.investigatethesec.com .
Copyright 2006
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By Your Humble Servant on 1/8/2007 6:36 PM
Dear Tommytoyz,

Like Bobo you fail to understand the difference between a commodity and a stock certificated. A stock certificate is just a claim on the earnings of the company. Its value is based on that earnings stream and not the availability of the stock. In the short term valuation can be distorted just like you could drive the value of $1 bills up at the mall by offering $5 for each one.

It is the demand for the earnings and not the stock that drives its value and it is the supply of all competing sources of earnings that balances the demand side of the equation, not the supply of a certain company's stock certificates.

Dear Humble Diverter,

People who illegally naked short sell a stock should be prosecuted but they haven't stolen anything from the person they sold shares of Enron to at $50/sh. Whether you purchase shares of Enron at $50/sh that are delivered or aren't delivered is irrelevant to the validity of your loss meaning they aren't responsible for your loss.

Your Humble Servant
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By ted on 1/8/2007 8:03 PM
Yourhumblediverter,

You are contradicting yourself. You just said worthless tulips could be worth $1,000 in a craze.

Shares are valued by supply and demand of the shares. They can be overvalued by scarcity of shares (a pump and dump where insiders control supply) or by oversupply of shares (the market is flooded by fake shares). The commodity has value, but shareholders can only get the value the auction market prices the shares at.

In both cases, the share price has nothing to do with the value.

If a company pays dividends, there is a limit to the manipulation. I couldn't imagine NFI paying much more than 25% return with dividends or it starts to get stupid.

What about the company that needs to raise money based on the share price? What if they are creating something that could be incredibly valuable to shareholders next year, but which needs to be subsidized this year.

If you conspire to flood the market with counterfeit shares, you are in a position to steal the asset from the people that paid for its development.

You remind me of that dickhead in the NFI thread on Yahoo that used to always thank me for my time.
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By teacheric on 1/8/2007 10:26 PM
Your humble servant is the same basher that always finished his statements with "thank you for your time." Same crap, different name
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By Criminals I Say on 1/9/2007 3:42 AM
The SEC is a collection of scumbags wallowing in a stagnant mire. A cesspool of a malignant disease spread by the hierarchy therein. Take the Agurrie hearing and listen to the tape and you can hear and see the bowels of the earth spewing forth the vomit of a government organization wretching with corruption.
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By Iona Hogbin on 1/9/2007 6:31 AM
Your Humble Servant should study Jim Cramer's self-confession on The Games Hedge Funds Play.
(see http://www.thestreet.com/funds/realmoneyradiowrap/10329451.html)

If RIMM has a good quarter, the value of the stock should go up. Cramedog says we can't have that.

If Apple sells its phones, this should make the value of the company and stock go up, by Cramedog says we can't have that. So he calls six trading desks and tells lies because HFs need the stock to go down because they were banking on it. They shorted it.

So if companies don't do what the HFs want, the HFs manipulate. If any believers in biotechs, don't get what they want, they don't manipulate. They just take their losses and move on.

Add in the counterfeit illegal naked short sales, then we have big time manipulation.

Does Humble Servant see the difference?

All in my Humble opinion
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By Bobo on 1/9/2007 11:46 AM
Humblediverter:

A share is not only a claim on future earnings, it is also a piece of the equity of the company, which holds rights that a claim doesn't. Specifically, the right to vote, and the right to preferential dividend treatment, as well as the right to sue the company as a shareholder. A book entry not backed by a share has none of those rights. That the voting rights are trampled by Wall Street is evidenced by the recent Bloomberg article on the topic, wherein it was reported that 100% of companies surveyed had overvoting. That isn't right. One share, one vote. NSS makes a mockery of corporate voting and oversight. Additionally, only a genuine share has the right to preferential dividend treatment. A marker absent the underlying share doesn't. Ditto for the right to sue. If you don't own a share of the company, you can't sue as an aggrieved shareholder - you have no claim or cause of action.

In short, your position is incorrect. People pay for a share of stock for a host of reasons, not just the one you wish to make this about. Scarcity of those genuine shares dictates price when it meets demand for them. Introducing markers with NONE of the rights of a genuine share dilutes the price by introducing fakes into the system. If you aren't clear on the laws of supply and demand in an auction market I propose you look into economics 101. Scarcity dictates price according to demand.
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By oldfeller on 1/9/2007 9:20 PM
Big changes only come after complete breakdowns. Watch for the lines. Remember the lines at the gas stations when they said we were out of oil? Remember the lines at the savings and loan offices when it all went bad? Ever see the pictures of the lines in the USSR of people trying to get some food? When we all start lining up they know they have us where they want us.
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By bbhindyou on 1/10/2007 5:43 AM
Oldfeller the lines are here.
I live in michigan and our kids are dying in Iraq or standing in a unemployment line.
This area was the center of america's manufacturing industry.
Was.
I see the lines.
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By gregcable2002 on 1/10/2007 5:45 AM
oldfeller,it won't happen without a fight,those who are dependent on the governmnt for their lives will go along,we who depend only on ourselves will fight until the end.
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By bbhindyou on 1/10/2007 6:38 AM
Gregcable if you are independent to the point that you need no job to provide food and shelter for your family then you are in a minority.
The rest of us rely on a stable economy to provide new jobs as old industry is replaced new industry develops.
Something has pulled the rug out from under that in america.
Even those existing industrys left here are looking for the newest innovation sources from outside america because the companys that were starting up found the conditions for raising capital and starting a small company to be better outside the U.S.
The D.T.C.C. has had thirty years to sow now america reaps the 'benefits'.
Why was the D.T.C.C. created?
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By gregcable2002 on 1/10/2007 7:36 AM
Heres what I'm talking about;This text is from a county emergency manager out in the Western part of
Colorado after the recent snow storm.

WEATHER BULLETIN

Up here in mountainous Colorado we just recovered from a Historic event---
may I even say a "Weather Event" of "Biblical Proportions" --- with a
historic blizzard of up to 44" inches of snow and winds to 90 MPH that
broke
trees in half, knocked down utility poles, stranded hundreds of motorists
in
lethal snow banks, closed ALL roads, isolated scores of communities and cut
power to 10's of thousands.

FYI:

George Bush did not come.

FEMA did nothing.

No one howled for the government.

No one blamed the government.

No one even uttered an expletive on TV.

Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton did not visit.

Our Mayor's did not blame Bush or anyone else.

Our Governor did not blame Bush or anyone else either

CNN, ABC, CBS, FOX, or NBC did not visit - or report on this category 5
snow
storm

Nobody demanded $2,000 debit cards.

No one asked for a FEMA Trailer House.

No one looted.

Nobody - I mean Nobody demanded the government do something.

Nobody expected the government to do anything either.

No Larry King, No Katie Couric, No Oprah, No Chris Mathews and No Geraldo
Rivera

No Sean Penn, No Barbara Striesand, No Hollywood types to be found. Nope,
we
just melted the snow for water.

Sent out caravans of SUV's to pluck people out of snow engulfed cars.

The truck drivers pulled people out of snow banks and didn't ask for a
penny.

Local restaurants made food, and the police and fire departments delivered
it to the snow bound families.

Families took in the stranded people - total strangers.

We Fired up wood stoves, broke out coal oil lanterns or Coleman lanterns.

We put on an extra layers of clothes because up here it is "Work or Die."

We did not wait for some affirmative action government to get us out of a
mess created by being immobilized by a welfare program that trades votes
for
'sitting at home' checks.

Even though a Category "5" blizzard of this scale has never fallen this
early, we know it can happen and how to deal with it ourselves.

"In my many travels, I have noticed that once one gets north of about 48
degrees North Latitude, 90% of the world's social problems evaporate."

It does seem that way, at least to me.

I hope this gets passed on.

Maybe SOME people will get the message The world does Not owe you a living.
- - - - -
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By browntrout on 1/10/2007 8:28 PM
Bobo- Why is it ok for the "journalists" to use stolen info to try to damage a noble cause but it isn't ok for companies to protect themselves against insiders leaking insider information to the press?

http://biz.yahoo.com/bizj/070110/1400939.html?.v=1

bizjournals.com
Federal charge in HP spy case
Wednesday January 10, 9:41 pm ET


Federal prosecutors filed their first charges in the Hewlett-Packard Co. spying case on Wednesday.
Private investigator Bryan Wagner is accused of using the Social Security Number of an unidentified journalist to illegally gain access to private phone logs, according to the criminal charges filed in San Jose federal court by U.S. Attorney Kevin V. Ryan's office.

Wagner is charged with identity theft connected to that alleged spying, federal prosecutors said.

He is also accused of conspiring to illegally obtain and transmit personal information on HP directors, journalists and employees.

Is anyone pushing the cops to prosecute the NCANS personal information invasion or is it too much to ask that justice be served without an agenda?
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By pjstevenson on 1/10/2007 8:53 PM
Regulator cracks down on naked short sales
Former fund manager to pay $110,000 U.S.

http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/169092
The Investor Bill of Rights and the Federal Securiities Reserve System By smuopr8r on 1/11/2007 9:49 AM
TommyToyz is the modern-day Alexander Hamiilton:

All securities should be registered. All trades should be cleared, with corresponding revision to the registration. No registered securities, no acknowledgement of funds, no commission, no trade.

Use the current Federal Reserve System as a model. Construct a high-speed infrastructure to replace the current DTCC infrastructure. Put all broker-level trades of US securities through a clearing process at DTCC Branch Brokerages.

Yep, that oughta just about do it.
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By kevin on 1/11/2007 2:17 PM
Smooth Operator:

The DTC currently registers the shares in the name of clearing brokerages. I don't understand the reason for the levels of abstraction and why so few brokerages perform their own back office functions.

The beneficial owner as registered at the DTC should be the actual brokerage that made the trade and purchased the shares.

This would be equivalent to registering the shares. It would be trivially easy to audit a brokerage to see if they had enough shares at the DTC to back the shares their customers think they own.
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By piddly_sum on 1/11/2007 4:43 PM
from DJ:

US Hedge Funds May See Redemptions
Hedge funds focused on U.S. markets will see net redemptions for the first time ever in 2007 as investors shift money to emerging-markets managers, especially traders specializing in China, according to an annual survey of the $1.4 trillion industry by Deutsche Bank AG.
U.S.-focused funds are likely to see outflows of 8% of current investment levels this year, while managers specializing in China could experience a 39% jump, Deutsche Bank found in a poll of investors with more than $900 billion in hedge funds.
Other emerging-markets managers focused on other parts of Asia and Latin America could also see inflows of at least 13% in 2007, Deutsche Bank (DB) added.
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By Shades of Sedona on 1/11/2007 7:02 PM
Friends and Market Sleuths,

So, were you watching today to see if my predictions in the Jag Media trading
would be validated? I am sure it really does not matter because to date little
has been done to protect the shareholders. Formal complaints will be filed with
the NASD and SEC as they have in the past anyway.

So...on to today's trading. What an amusement ride this one was.

Oh, before I start. Jag Media is late in filing their financials. Some claim
that this could be shares issued to an open equity line the company has with
Cornell Capital. That thought crossed my mind as well but, with the selling
volume into this fingerprint pattern now exceeding 5% of the last known filing
(2.6 Million shares with a last known structure of 42.9 Million), Cornell
Capital would have been obligated to file a 5% ownership position when they
received these shares or be in violation of securities law.

Calculated [2.6 Million / (42.9M +2.6M)] = 5.7% of the company.

There is no filing on record yet the selling continues with no end in sight. So
if this is part of the companies actions, Cornell is in violation of securities
laws and has been trading on information they were required to present to the
public. Once Cornell would have received over 2.1 Million shares they would
have been long 5% or more of the company and would be required to file.

SEC Rule 13d-1 Any person who, after acquiring directly or indirectly the
beneficial ownership of any equity security of a class which is specified in
paragraph (i) of this section, is directly or indirectly the beneficial owner of
more than five percent of the class shall, within 10 days after the acquisition,
file with the Commission, a statement containing the information required by
Schedule 13D.

Okay, now on to todays trading.

As Predicted, FANC became the early aggressor but also as predicted, NITE was
not about to let this stock get out of hand. Buy side orders into the Offer
resulted in the rapid decrease in the represented offer as both NITE and FANC
chased the bids down.

Consider first that NITE has been a figure in the market these past two days but
a silent figure staying just outside the represented Offers. Today, with early
buy side volume into FANC's client, NITE needed to come in and hold the fort
after FANC's client seems to be filled early on. NITE met the task trading
identical to how FANC was trading.

Amazingly, at 11:00 with NITE representing the Offer at $0.38 and the Bid was at
$0.37 the offer was lifted for 5500 shares. NITE responds by lowering the offer
to $0.375 at 11:02:50. Instantly (11:03:58 - 11:07:30) the Bid is throttled
with 30,000 shares driving the $0.37 Bid to $0.36 at 11:07:14. NITE, at
11:07:59 has already responded by chasing the Bid down posting a new Offer of
$0.37.

Question: With buyers willing to lift a $0.38 Offer why would a seller
represented by NITE want to drive down the market from $0.37 X $0.38 to $0.36 X
$0.37 when the pressure is on the buy side?

Now the kicker....History repeating itself

Earlier in the morning, at 9:43, it was FANC representing the Offer of $0.38
with a Bid of $0.35. Between the time of 10:00:22 and 10:27:28 a total of
34,000 shares traded into the Offer of $0.38. At 10:31:47 FANC responds to this
buy side interest at $0.38 by LOWERING the Offer to $0.37. This move was
responded to with yet another 18,000 shares lifting the $0.37 Offer. Total
trading into offers represented by FANC, 52,000 shares - and the stock price
DROPPED.

FANC, who has not had a client since last Friday, has now found a client that
wants to do nothing but sell (FANC has no represented Bid in the market) and
sell to lower profits. This client able to absorb significant buy side volume
that now represents the total volume traded all day yesterday.

Question: What is the magic about $0.37 or $0.38 that FANC and NITE both have a
seller that wants to protect that upside ceiling? Could it be the same seller
working through 2 firms?

By the definition of market manipulation a stock does not have to be pumped up,
or distorted down, it just has to be under the control of an individual who is
illegally trading to obtain such control. Thus, controlling upside momentum is
just as manipulative as driving a stock price down.
Now by law, and represented by the market, FANC is not making a market in this
stock so any trading they undertake must be represented by a client. FANC spent
the day trading with only an offer in the box and no bid was ever presented.

NITE, on the other hand, was on both sides of the market although their
appearance on the Bid remained fixated at $0.34, which rarely represented the
best Bid available. If NITE was selling as a bona-fide market maker however
their tactics were abusive as they were driving the bids out instead of matching
sellers into existing bids.

To support claims of price controls consider this:

After 11:07 the market was set at $0.36 Bid (HDSN) by $0.37 Offer (NITE).
Yesterday (eliminating the crossed volume) the stock traded a sum total of
96,000 shares and ranged between $0.34 and $0.38. Today the market was set at
11:07, on an illiquid and thinly traded stock, and

Now remember, my assertion is that this trade volume is originating from
offshore. By the US settlement system, as long as the market maker can close
their books flat by crossing their volume to an offshore client or wash trades
between each other, they are clean. The DTCC CNS system will never recognize
their actions as they net out at ZERO. The fail in the settlement will be
represented by a fail to receive at the buyer and a fail to deliver Offshore and
a fail to deliver outside the DTCC CNS settlement register.

And to a history lesson that required careful mentoring of the SEC team by
outsiders similar to myself, from the SEC archives...

Badian illegally directed defendants Spinner, Drillman and Graham to sell short
massive amounts of Sedona stock with "unbridled levels of aggression," intending
to "clobber" Sedona's stock price until it "collapsed." These three individuals
concealed Amro's identity from the market, which permitted them to create the
false appearance that individual investors were selling large amounts of
Sedona's stock.

Just after the market closed, Spinner, Drillman and Graham typically sold the
Sedona shares from Arnro's customer account at Refco to the Pond proprietary
account. These sales would be at a price slightly below the average price of
Pond's daily sales of Sedona stock.

Defendants short selling of Sedona stock made up a significant percentage of the
volume of Sedona trading reported to the public.

After Spinner, Drillman and Graham completed their sales of Sedona stock,
Spinner asked Badian whether he was concerned that Sedona's stock price would
begin to rise now that they had ceased their selling pressure on the stock.
Badian remarked he was not concerned because he had a particular market maker
"in the way7' to keep the price from rising.

Gee does this all sound and look familiar to Jag Media trading patterns:

1. Seller is always aggressive and willing to sell down a position
2. Daily large block crosses to close out Market Maker positions calculated
to 1/100th of a penny.
3. End of Day single block crosses represent - on average - 40% of the
total trade volume since SEPTEMBER 2006. Repeatable regardless of heavy or
light volume.
4. Market Makers appear available to come out with a seller that is willing
to sell down small and large buy side interests. (Repeatable over months)

Oh, how was my prediction made in pre-market?

* Was FANC a major sell side factors in the market? --- Yes
* Did not put a cap on the stock price? ---Yes
* Was there a large single block cross at the end of the day? --- Yes
(100,000 shares at 3:45)
* Did the stock close in the red? ---- No but as I indicated it would
take a lot of buy side to prevent it and there was.

I hit 75% again. The attached word file is a record of the market maker
movements and the excel file is the repeated pattern.


Dave Patch
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By Retail Maven on 1/11/2007 8:07 PM
Dave Patch seems perplexed and I want to help. We got in a shipment of 2,000 pairs of jeans 3 weeks ago and put them out at $49.95 and 1,500 were purchased. Sales slowed but instead of raising the price in view of all this buying pressure we lowered the price so we could get the remaining 500 pair sold.

Is Jag Media making money yet or are they still in the share printing business?
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By Naked Short I Say on 1/12/2007 1:02 AM
Mr. Retail Maven (King Basher) you seem perplexed and confused.

The pants you sold you physically had. The JAGH shares sold do not exist and will not be delivered. Capice (Italian for do you understand)?
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By Retail Maven on 1/12/2007 12:35 PM
Is Jag Media making money or are they still in the share printing business?

Not getting delivery of jeans is a problem and your naked bottom will get cold but not having any Jag Media shares hot off their printing press doesn't seem to be a problem unless you were planning on re-papering your bathroom.

Dave Patch is blaming the wrong people for his poor investment choice.

SEC Sues Former CEO and President of Jag Media Holdings, Inc. for Making Unregistered Sales and Transfers of Securities
Trading in Jag Media should be halted By Retail Maven on 1/12/2007 12:50 PM
Forget all the jabbering about buying pressure, the company is worthless. Shut it down. Stop complaining about naked short selling and start complaining about companies who stop filing financial statements fleecing investors.

Jag Media, quarter ended April 2006
Total assets: $125K
Total liabilities: $3.5M
Accumulated deficit: $47M
Revenue: $58K
Loss: $776K

Dave Patch needs to grow up and accept the fact that he invested his money in a pile of dog shit. The deluded belief that any sales of JAGH are naked shorts or phantom shares is based on the premise that no other holder of JAGH realizes the shares are worthless.
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By rotten odor on 1/12/2007 1:47 PM
Wagner then contacted the telephone companies to get call logs and billing records of a Wall Street Journal reporter and two company directors, their family members and other, unnamed people, Assistant U.S. Attorney Mark Krotoski said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?

pid=20601103&sid=aYjooJdDCEjI&refer=news
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By jeane on 1/12/2007 3:23 PM
Without commenting on the value of any particular company, I think we all agree there should be listing standards for companies.

Where I disagree:

1. The public is told that the price of shares is set by supply and demand. It is illegal to misrepresent how the auction market works in order to induce people to use real money to buy your fake shares. The money is real. The pedigree of the company is irrelevant.

2. In a democracy, the majority rule. If most of us think the shares are undervalued and we all buy shares and drive them up, then the company has the luxury to raise money in a non dilutive way to build their business plan.

Who the hell are you to decide what the fundamentals are worth in your ivory tower, then flood the market with worthless receipts to "make it so".

Counterfeiters always refer to the victim companies need to raise capital or low funds on hand as their main problem, but typically they have low funds because they've been naked shorted into oblivion.
Re: Self- Regulation Op-Ed: How Dumb Do We Look? I Mean, Really? How Stupid? By Blubbering Dave on