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Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up

Location: Blogs Bob O'Brien's Sanity Check Blog    
Posted by:   bobo 12/8/2006 10:32 PM

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Visit the new "SEC/Gary Aguirre Cover-Up" section of this site for a compilation of Mr. Aguirre's efforts to expose the SEC's alleged obstruction of justice and whitewashing of insider trading by some of the biggest names on Wall Street.

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Again.

"What would happen if we fought back, lawfully, and used the system's larcenous counterfeiting against it?"

That was the question that Tommytoyz posed when he structured this idea, and requested a comment letter from the SEC on it. We had knocked it around, refining the pros and cons of it, and my feeling was that the SEC would simply crush anyone attempting to lawfully profit from Wall Street's criminal and contemptuous conduct. Tommy came up with the idea of testing the idea formally by requesting a position from the SEC. Brilliant, actually. So off went the letter.

His idea is simple, really. Secure the dividend rights to a company's stock from a majority of shareholders, and then invest into the company, with the intent that the company pay out 90% of what was received, as a dividend.

The investors would not have any rights to sell the stock, and would be precluded from doing so, or in any way benefiting outside of capturing the dividend. Wouldn't own it. Would be a dividend investor, period. All within the legal limits of what you are supposed to be able to do in the markets. Sounds pretty straightforward, right? Again. Nothing illegal.

Here's the key to the idea's appeal. On companies where the system has created 200, 300, 500, 1000% or more share entitlements than actual shares issued by the company, the brokers would be required to pay the dividend to all the entitlement holders.

Simplified, if a company had a million shares issued, and you were able to get 3 million entitlement dividend rights from consenting shareholders, you could invest ten million dollars into the company, and the company would pay out $9 million of it as dividends ($9 per share), keeping $1 million for their trouble, and the investor would see $28 million in dividends. Rinse next month, and repeat. It would add up pretty quickly. Maybe next month, invest $20 million. Whatever you feel like tripling. Have fun with it.

And nobody wants to sell shares - the investors don't own any. In fact, it would be best if the shares stayed flat in price - nobody but long speculators would benefit from a price rise, and that isn't what the investors are - again, they don't even own the shares, merely the dividend rights. So they don't want those that they secured the rights from to sell - they want them to hold forever, in exchange for some compensation. They want it to go on forever. So what it isn't is a manipulative device to increase or decrease the value of the shares.

What it is is a mechanism to exploit the exploitation by the brokers who see fit to sell 10 times the outstanding shares of a company, figuring that there is no appreciable downside to doing so. The hypothetical dividend capture investors would make money from knowing these ropes, by merely appropriately targeting companies that have been victimized by having untold amounts of their shares created out of thin air, for the benefit of Wall Street,

Read his request to the SEC. He spent a lot of time on the phone with them today, and they basically wouldn't comment - even though supposedly they have no particular interest in whether brokers are profitable or not, or get themselves in binds via illegal activity or reckless abuse of loopholes - theoretically, in a fair market, Tommy's strategy would be the balance to counter that abuse, sort of the equivalent of shorting the short sellers and brokers and extracting a perennial tax on those who abused us.

So it is OK for them to take trillions from our savings and depress the value of our shares and never deliver and to defraud us of ownership rights. That's just fine. But if you are like Tommy and want to turn the tables, and financially benefit by lawfully extracting financial benefit from researching and investing in companies where this would work, you can expect the SEC to knuckle punch you in the throat.

I think we should all be asking why pros can steal our money using technical niceties, but when we attempt to derive financial benefit from spotting the worst of the crooks in action and holding their feet to the fire to fulfill their dividend obligation, the alarm bells start sounding throughout the SEC. They wouldn't even respond to this request in writing, as though even acknowledging the collosal systemic risk the system has created for itself whilst ripping us off might create a firestorm.

So the SEC won't even decline to offer an opinion letter on it in writing, as that would be evidence that they know about this and could be shown to be aware of the illegal rigging of the system, as well as their blatant favoritism of the industry over the protection of investors.

Maybe everyone should write the SEC, citing this idea as one you are interested in trying (we can start a partnership if you like, and invest therein - a hedge fund - to do it - there's a funny idea), and for which you want a formal opinion on from the SEC. If they say you can't do it, have them cite the specific reason why - supported by the relevant code. Remember, nobody involved wants to sell shares, or even own the shares. The company wants the $1 million to use as working capital, so there is a benefit to them. Shareholders benefit as that increase to the book value would theoretically increase the value of their holding.

And the investors would have a financial perpetual motion machine, fueled and paid for by the crooks, until the crooks on Wall Street stopped printing shares in their back rooms.

Simple concept, that. Create actual material disincentives to defrauding investors - you could lose money doing it if our little hypothetical investment group took you on. Imagine. An actual downside to crime.

And while you are at it, ask the SEC why they would be against something so simple, that actually benefits and protects investors in the company, benefits the company, and encourages integrity in the market by serving as a powerful reason NOT to counterfeit shares or get in too deep taking investor dollars and delivering nothing.

Why would  regulator object to the crooks getting caught in their own criminal scheme, and having to pay the price of doing so?

Ask them.

And tell them to put it in writing. If they try to argue 10b5, they are full of it. It isn't.

If they disagree, have them explain why, in writing. Remember, theoretically, they work for you.

Copyright ©2006 Bob O'Brien
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Comments (94)
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By ostk man on 12/9/2006 12:18 AM
bobo, did you see fridays front page of the WSJ? "Hedge Funds hire lobbyists to gather tips in Washington"...

What a bunch of crooks
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By tommytoyz on 12/9/2006 2:01 AM
They wouldn't even give me a letter denying to respond. Nothing at all, because that way the letter wouldn't become public. If they wrote anything at all, even to say " we decide not to respond to your letter as our prerogative because...." the letter would have to be published.

They told me that this letter lends itself to their answer to it being misunderstood, so they didn't want to respond at all, not even to say they weren't responding. They never came out and said precisely why they thought that. Couldn't get it out of them. I asked if the issue could turn into a hot potato and he said it could cause concern among several in the division...what ever that means - nothing without the why.

I basically think they want to put a the lid on this risk exposure and shut me up, basically.................
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By Selene on 12/9/2006 1:25 PM
is that in lou or loo. Who the hell cares. At least I don't stutter when I type...
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By Bobo on 12/9/2006 1:26 PM
Selene: Math aside (fat fingers, too) this isn't a Ponzi scheme. This is a legitimate effort to use the current regulatory framework to make money, just as the hedge funds do now. Nothing more. One could argue the whole stock market is also a big Ponzi scheme and thus illegal as well, but it won't get you very far.

My hunch is that after a few hundred million are made, NSS will be radically reduced as the stakes and risks are simply too large. Meanwhile, we made several huindred mil. That can't be bad. And maybe we dump a bunch of that into a charitable foundation for investor protection, which further cleans up misbehavior.

Nope. Not a ponzi scheme. Just using the system lawfully to make money. If Herb in your scenario wants out, he can buy a share and get out. Nobody is holding a gun to his head to stay in and pay. Ditto for the prme brokers. That they can no longer take investor cash and then refuse to deliver what was paid for, pocketing the proceeds, is certainly a big crying shame for them, but other than that, I see no downside.

No wonder the SEC hates this.
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By piddly_sum on 12/9/2006 1:48 PM
Selene,

Re-write your scenario where Tom and Bob are the owners Hedge fund XYZ. Then it makes a lot of sense for them from both an income and a book value standpoint. So long as the hedge fund consists of the owners of more than ~110% of the outstanding shares in a 90% payout agreement then it starts to work for them, and the other shareholders benefit as well. As your example points out, this beats up the all shorts, legal borrowers and issuers of unregistered securities.


Tommy,
This idea is brilliant. It seems like extortion, but at the same time legal and moral as well.
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By tommytoyz on 12/9/2006 1:54 PM
First they said they would respond to me in writing. Yesterday the tone was totally different. After examining the letter and even the Chief Counsel getting involved, basically they're plowing it under, not even a letter to tell me they're not responding, nothing, as if it didn't ever exist - I think those were the actual words they used.

Global Links (GLLC.PK) for instance has two people, John Floto and Robert Simpson who both filed 13Ds with the SEC for buying more than 100% of issued shares in their accounts, far above the 5% threshold for requiring to file. Here are the 13Ds.
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/949728/000132009805000010/textbod4.txt
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/949728/000101540205000967/doc1.txt

The price to borrow dividend rights can be kept nominal, almost free, as the deal is that the plan wouldn't work unless enough share holders cooperate and make this work.

I have actually proposed this to GLobal Links but they are skittish. CEOs don't understand how the market works, much less what to do about it if they're the target of Wall Street. But these are many companies out there is similar situations. I'm not even sure the CEOs are the best to approach, rather they should be told what the share holders want them to do after share holders are already on board.

I put the idea to the SEC for the purpose of actually doing it, not as an intellectual exercise. If the system is broken, then the broker-dealers are not the only ones who can exploit the hole. If there is a hole in a wall, air can flow in both directions.....I'm just reversing the flow through the exact same hole caused by excessive "securities entitlements" issued by broker-dealers.

Jeremiah, thanks for your input as well as everyone else. As a group we can come up with better ideas than by ourselves.......I would also encourage anyone to go ahead and send off a copy of this to the SEC and politicians, even directly to broker-dealers. I would be fun to ask broker-dealers to comment on this, as they're the ones in the cross hairs for issuing the seurities entitlements in such massive numbers.........
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By How is it a Ponzi? on 12/9/2006 2:55 PM
Selene: You are absolutely wrong.

You had better read up on what a Ponzi scheme is and how the work! Nice try.
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By Transparency on 12/9/2006 3:08 PM
Depending what state you live in you may have to tell them you are recording. That should not be a problem for our public servants.
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By Paul B. on 12/9/2006 3:12 PM
If you want more signees, I suggest you rewrite this in plain English.
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By vision on 12/9/2006 3:13 PM
Bobo, don't take this the wrong way, but your articles are a bit defeatest as you assume the powers that be are going to screw us.

We need to get a powerful vision that we can make reality.

I see a massive flip in the spring, including arrests of SEC regulators, congressman and senators that have been on the take.

I envision massive bankrupticies from the brokerages because all their cash went to us as they were pushed into a massive short squeeze!

You should be posting about our vision of winning as there is nothing more powerful than a self fulfilling prophesy.

Instead of saying "as I expected, the SEC fucked us" you could say "senator hearings make it likely that SEC officials wil be arested in January".

What we expect to happen is what WILL happen. That's how life works.

It's the secret.
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By happyswede on 12/9/2006 3:20 PM
Bobo,

The brilliantly "naughty" plan that Tommygeniustoyz has dreamed up has struck a
chord with all us NFI longs!

We need to organize this plan and carry out the plan as follows:

1. Fund a high powered securities law firm to review and render an opinion
of the plan.
2. Prepare a list of publicy traded companies that would fit the template of a target
company meeting minimum requirements.
3. Commence discussions with CEOs about DCP plan.
4. Narrow choices down to 2 or 3 prime targets.
5. Initiate the DCP Plan - First shares to Tommytoyz!
6. Let's Roll!

Regards,

Tom
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By Wonder Boy on 12/9/2006 3:30 PM
Another question-----Unless the 'dividend rights' are split out into a separate tradeable 'unit', doesn't the 'share' travel with all of it attendant rights, e.g. voting, dividends, etc.
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By InTheKnow on 12/9/2006 4:10 PM
Vision, you are 100% correct in what is going to happen. It maybe sooner than you think!
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By selene on 12/9/2006 4:28 PM
I didn't say it was a ponzi scheme.

I wanted to suggest that the SEC or whoever has authority would eventually bring up some reason why it is illegal (ie. a ponzi or whatever). I am not a lawyer.

Also, in my example I purposely set up a scenario where both the shorter and the broker have not done anything wrong. It's something to think about (that is if we all agree there is nothing wrong with legal shorting).

Also, someone would have to check with the IRS on whether this dividend payment is really a dividend payment. We all just assume it would be treated as such, but I'm not so sure.

I'm really at a loss as to why any of us would waste time trying to think up a scheme. The most basic sheme of all would be for someone to take one of these companies private. So, why is this off the table?

I don't have any idea what is really going on, but if what we all suspect is true, then no scheme is going to get us out of this... Not even a buyout because they'll just continue to print money from other companies.

The only way I see to do anything about this is to focus on educating the public and getting Congress to follow along. Other than Patrick, most have done a piss poor job in explaining any of this... Oh... and if you think Dr. Susan T. is going to explain to joe six pack how he is being defrauded you are all sadly mistaken. She is a lightweight who has no idea what she is talking about. If you think Arnie will, you are dreaming. The guy should be fired by his investors.

Nope. No.

Patrick needs to do another through the looking glass that takes us into the DTCC etc... Enough with everybody else. You guys can't explain shit... Oh, I like Dave Patch, but bob you are all over the place....

Selene
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By Stevie on 12/9/2006 4:29 PM
I like this as an option to expose the problem though it is no substitute for true reforms.

My suggestion is for the actual shareholders to pool together and create a partnership. So they would in essence be selling the dividend rights to themselves, their own partnership. Partnerships are easy to form and easy to dissolve and the shareholders don't have to lose their dividend rights, they would just assign their share of dividend rights to their own collective partnership and get the payout themselves since the dividend would go to the partnership and the partnership in turn would pay the dividend out to the partners (shareholders).
Make it painless to the companies.... By Stevie on 12/9/2006 4:45 PM
You could also make it painless to the corporations by having the dividend receivers form a DRIP program. In other words the dividend receivers would re-invest the dividend right back into the company either by a DRIP program. It could also be timed out, e.g. the dividend capture contracts would/could expire annually or at a fixed date in the future.

You'd need a good lawyer to contractually cover all the contingencies. You could start something only to find out 2 months later than half of your partners sold their shares on the squeeze... then what? The shorts come back?
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By hemingway811 on 12/9/2006 5:17 PM
Wouldn't you have to compensate the individuals from whom you borrowed the dividend rights? If not, why?

If I owned 10,000 shares of a target company that was about to pay $ 1.00 dividend I would not freely give up $ 10,000. in dividends.
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By hemingway811 on 12/9/2006 5:50 PM
Wouldn't you have to compensate the shareholders from whom you borrow dividend rights? If not, why?

If I owned 10,000 shares of a DCS targeted company I would not willingly give up $ 10,000 of dividend income.
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By InTheKnow on 12/9/2006 6:03 PM
Selene:

For one who has an opinion on everyone I think you should look at yourself first. Your posts make no sense half the time your rants are full of holes.

Your Ponzi Scheme bullshit is exactly as you wrote it. Either learn to write or STFU you idiot!

As for lightweights you take the cake crybaby!
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By Admiral Ackbar on 12/10/2006 1:14 AM
would it be possible for one of the owners of more than 100% of Global Links to make a private buyout offer on their own shares? It wouldn't cost them anything because they would in essence be paying themselves, so wouldn't they be able to pick an arbitrary number, say like 5 million, 20 million, 1 billion?.. whatever, but they would also profit on all the other shares over that 100 percent they own, as well as anyone else who owned any shares. Am I missing anything here on this?
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By Admiral Ackbar on 12/10/2006 1:20 AM
would it be possible for one of the owners of more than 100% of Global Links to make a private buyout offer on their own shares? It wouldn't cost them anything because they would in essence be paying themselves, so wouldn't they be able to pick an arbitrary number, say like 5 million, 20 million, 1 billion?.. whatever, but they would also profit on all the other shares over that 100 percent they own, as well as anyone else who owned any share, all at the expense of the crooks who have sold shares many times over that they didn't have. Am I missing anything here on this?
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By stryker-ny on 12/10/2006 6:10 AM
Bo...I guess the first step would be to get the ok from a good securities lawyer.Once the concept is approved the floodgates will open.Lots of people on the chats are reading toms letter and are voicing an interest.....
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By Long Time Listener on 12/10/2006 6:24 AM
Tommy/EB:
I get pretty excited about the plan. If you move ahead with implementation please keep the updates here or reference where they are - I think I would like to participate.
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By Imperative on 12/10/2006 6:51 AM
It is imperative that the investigation of the SEC continue with Leahy as the new chairman if the Judiciary Committee. He knows all about this as he is currently on the Judiciary Committee.

This must be persued as this is not an abberition but business as usual at the SEC.
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By selene on 12/10/2006 8:58 AM
In lieu of. Thanks Tommy.

Wonderful stuff by Tommy. Bob, maybe you should of just thrown up the SEC letter instead of the blog.

Selene
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By Mosses on 12/10/2006 6:34 PM
Bob, would someone have to pay taxes on the entire dividend?

Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By pjstevenson on 12/10/2006 7:35 PM
Excellent!!!! I am all in with this one.
While we're at it, we might as well ask Mark Faulk if he wants to hold off publishing and add one more chapter to his book. Better yet, finish the current one and start writing another!
Let's roll!!!
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By variation on 12/10/2006 7:43 PM
Another variation would be for a good dividend paying company to buy up 100% of the shares in companies with massive fail to deliver positions. Even delisted companies would work - even though the company isn't trading, dividends have to be matched.

NFI could buy 100% of CMKX, for example and pay for it with shares in NFI. Anyone with a fail to deliver would have to buy a share in NFI to match the dividend.

It doesn't matter how many shares NFI issues to buy the little company as they will get 100% of the shares back in dividend as they own 100% of the outstanding.

There are thousands of variations on how to use the fails as a dividend amplifier.
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By kevin on 12/11/2006 9:13 AM
http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061209/NEWS/612090370/1001/BUSINESS
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By kevin on 12/11/2006 9:15 AM
http://seekingalpha.com/article/22056
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By Bobo on 12/11/2006 9:27 AM
Mosses: If you structure the fund as a BVI or british company, you would pay zero dollars of taxes on the corporate dividend. If it was considered ordinary income, the fund would pay 15%, I believe. Jurisdiction shopping you might be able to get it to 10%. Maybe you structure it that way, roll the profits over, and a few years later, once you have turned $5 million into $500 million, any income repatriated to the US would require US taxes be paid, at that time, the responsibility of the US taxpayer to declare and pay...
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By Joseph Avenius on 12/11/2006 9:53 AM
Sorry, but I can't understand this. My real reason for my comment today is to try & find out a good message board where I can keep track of what is going on. Yahoo used to be good for this, until they changed the format & ruined it. Is there a current site where longs can get some daily current updates?
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By asensio on 12/11/2006 10:02 AM
Click on the link on the Pequot "controversy".

http://asensio.com/
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By Patrick on 12/11/2006 10:30 AM
How does this not qualify as stock manipulation?
Just because what the brokers are doing isn't legal does not mean that a contrary practice would be any better.

We look forward to a clean and honest market, not one riddled with traps.

Patrick Donahoo
Global Links Corp
Investor Relations
pdonahoo@globallinkscorp.com
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By Burned up! on 12/11/2006 3:09 PM
I'm still burning after watching the sickening display by those scumbags at the SEC. Those gangsters, sitting like ducks all in a row, were out to ruin the career and life of Gary Aguirre because they think they are immune.

These little ducks are going to get their asses burnt to crisp and all the other scumbags at the SEC willl get what's coming to them also.We know that this is business as usual at the SEC and they will all rot in hell. This is just the beginning.
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By aldigit01 on 12/11/2006 3:32 PM
Selene,

You asked a question...why not just take the company private. To paraphrase from the dilemma Patrick B faces, "what price do I set for shares in taking the company private? What about those how bought at $70/share? They should make some money for their time. But with the share price currently below $20, a $71 buyout price is pretty steep."

Much better to nail them through their own created device of dividends on their counterfeit shares...errr...I mean invalid share entitlements. This way there's no limit to the price they have to pay to stop the bleeding from this massive reversing of the siphon.

IMO.
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By reply to Burned Up on 12/11/2006 5:52 PM
Third Person Warns About SEC's Handling of Pequot Probe
By Siobhan Hughes, Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
WASHINGTON -(Dow Jones)- A third person involved in an insider-trading probe of hedge fund Pequot Capital Management Inc. has warned Congress about the Securities and Exchange Commission's handling of the investigation, which the agency closed two months ago without recommending any enforcement action.

Hilton Foster, who participated in the investigation before he retired from the SEC in July 2005, has already testified before Senate Finance Committee investigators, who plan to issue a report early next year. He hasn't spoken publicly until now.

"I'm not going to accuse people, but it looks bad," Foster said in an interview last week. "They've got a lot of explaining to do."

...."Other people who haven't done as many of those types of investigations might approach it the same way they do a financial fraud case, which is totally different," said Foster, who trained SEC attorneys in how to handle insider- trading cases. "It's not necessarily wrong to wait until the end of an investigation to take someone's testimony, it's just that in an insider-trading case, it doesn't make much sense.

"The bottom line is he should have been contacted sooner rather than later for his version of had happened," Foster said. He also said that "Gary Aguirre is one of the best investigators that there is."...
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By Bobo on 12/11/2006 6:07 PM
Patrick:

How is leveraging the creation of shares over and above the authorized number, and creating a dividend mechanism that parlays that overage into a financial gain, qualify as stock manipulation?

I mean, how exactly? The investors do not want the stock to go up, nor do they care if it does. They don't own it, they aren't sellers. Stock manipulation involves increasing or decreasing the price of stock for gain. This doesn't depend on any change in price. Any.

So how is it stock manipulation? Isn't that sort of like saying buying a lot of NFI because it throws a huge dividend is stock manipulation by those seeking to collect the dividend? Sorry, but you will have to do better than "it's manipulation" cries to actually show it or have it considered manipulation.

Have at it.
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By tommytoyz on 12/11/2006 8:20 PM
My comments follow the quote

Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By Stevie on 12/9/2006 4:29 PM

"I like this as an option to expose the problem though it is no substitute for true reforms.

My suggestion is for the actual shareholders to pool together and create a partnership. So they would in essence be selling the dividend rights to themselves, their own partnership. Partnerships are easy to form and easy to dissolve and the shareholders don't have to lose their dividend rights, they would just assign their share of dividend rights to their own collective partnership and get the payout themselves since the dividend would go to the partnership and the partnership in turn would pay the dividend out to the partners (shareholders)."

_________________
We could all collectively target to buy shares in a security for which brokers are not shy of issuing excessive securities entitlements. There are several indicators for this. They're also cheap if we target OTC listed issues. We can even openly communicate about it on a chat forum visible to anyone. No partnership even needs to be formed, that adds yet another level of protection regarding manipulation.

Or we can just agree to follow an investment letter. Once enough investors are on board with enough resources, we all got o the beat of the letter. No communication amongst members needed.

There are many variations and perhaps we should try them all simultaneously, so as to make any kind of legal effort to stop it most difficult.

One concern is that management cooperate - though it's not 100% essential. This is preferred in order to avoid a share holder vote. Brokers could put a wrench in it by forcing a vote if management is not on board, because our votes get thrown out because securities entitlements don't have voting rights.

We could also buy a shell company already listed on the OTC for a few thousand bucks, and start buying up "securities entitlements" issued by brokers over a period of time and when we have a nice position, capitalize the company and star declaring dividends......Matter of fact we could buy several shell companies and do spread it out.

If we do it as individuals, brokers would never even suspect anything till they get hit in the back of the head with a ton of dividend bricks.

There are many variations to the way this can be done and made profitable. Main thing is to exploit the position the brokers have taken by their issuing excessive securities entitlements.
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By TheresASpyInTheHouse on 12/11/2006 8:44 PM
If the SEC won't answer you directly, why not call up a sympathetic senator and ask them to put in a Congressional inquiry? What is the SEC going to do, refuse to answer a question of regulatory interpretation put to it by the body that is charged with supervising the agency? How about having a senator put the question to the Congressional Research Service-- not binding on the SEC, but awfully hard for the agency to ignore.

An to the taxes on the dividend plan-- the money you give the company may be your investment expense to be offset against the dividends received. As my accountant points out every year when I grumble about the tax bill, if you weren't making money, you wouldn't be paying tax...
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By selene on 12/11/2006 9:07 PM
aldigit01

yes, you've reminded me of patrick making that point. I agree it is a valid one.

I have read Tommy's actual letter and read other comments, and I agree from a laymens point of view that this is a legit plan. I am concerned about its effects on legit legal shorts, but that is their problem and part of the risk they take. It is no different than the risk a long takes that another long will lend out his/her shares.

I hope Tommy and Bob pursue this.

Selene
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By Derivatives on 12/12/2006 3:12 AM
http://www.cfo.com/article.cfm/8401664/c_8401983?f=home_todayinfinance

The deadline for written comments on the proposal is March 2. Comments can be submitted to director@fasb.org, and should mention File Reference No. 1510-100.
Today in Finance for December 11, 2006

FASB Seeks New Derivatives Disclosures
The board wants companies to supply tables displaying notional and fair-value amounts of derivatives as well as derivatives gains and losses.
David M. Katz, CFO.com
December 11, 2006

The Financial Accounting Standards Board wants companies to disclose more details about the effects of derivatives and hedging on their financial statements.

Under a proposal issued Friday, FASB would require companies to discuss their objectives and strategies for using derivatives in terms of underlying risks and accounting designations in using them. The board also wants company disclosures to include tables displaying notional and fair-value amounts of derivatives and gains and losses on derivatives and related hedged items. Further, FASB would require companies to disclose information about counterparty credit risk and contingent features in derivatives.
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By bbhindyou on 12/12/2006 7:48 AM
There really is Santa!
What a bright shining set of toyz!
Clubs and balls enough for everyone!
Lets form teams!
Each team could use their clubs to get the ball rolling and when we get it going good and we find some naked shorts we could use tommy's play book to really wack a naked short.Theres too many of them out there as it is and really we are doing a public service , keeping their numbers down is good for the market.
If shorting [naked or not ] exposes scam companys and is 'good' for the market ,then this is just the other side of that exact same coin.
Let's flip the coin and play ball.
I want to play.
How can I help Tommy?
Please don't keep those toyz all to yourself.
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By n-tres-ted on 12/12/2006 8:48 AM
Bobo,

I see possible securities law issues in two aspects of the DCP. First, in the raising of capital from the investors in the DCP. And, second, in the solicitation and acquisition of rights to dividends from shareholders of the target company. SEC may take the view that the dividend rights are themselves securities.

Also, it appears the DCP would need the cooperation of corporate management in order to obtain access to the list of shareholders. And, I just don't understand what will persuade the shareholders to assign their rights to dividends to the DCP. They might be persuaded by the indirect benefit of the "free money" for the corporate coffers, or they might be persuaded by the prospect of getting the naked shorters to cover, thus driving up the share price. But they might require a portion of the dividends as a kicker.

Don't mean to be negative, but FWIW.
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By piddly_sum on 12/12/2006 3:15 PM
from DJ:

Hedge Fund Exec Charged W/Short-Selling

Federal regulators sued a Dallas-based hedge-fund manager, alleging he pulled in more than $6.5 million of gains through illegal trading involving “naked” short sales of dozens of companies.

Edwin Buchanan Lyon IV, the managing partner and chief investment officer of Gryphon Partners LP, was charged by the Securities and Exchange Commission on Tuesday, along with Gryphon and six other related firms based in Texas and Bermuda.

UBS Sued By Spitzer On Fraud Charges

UBS Financial Services Inc. (UBS) was sued by Attorney General Eliot Spitzer’s office for allegedly defrauding thousands of customers. The attorney general’s office claims UBS encouraged clients to pay higher fees by switching to InsightOne brokerage accounts and falsely promoted the program.

The lawsuit charges the Zurich-based investment management company with breaking state antifraud laws, common law fraud, and breaches of fiduciary duty. The complaint also seeks UBS disgorgement, damages and restitution.

UBS issued a statement that the company categorically denies that the program was part of a scheme to disadvantage clients.
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By Patrick on 12/12/2006 3:42 PM
Bob,

Maybe you will understand our reluctance to make a multi-million dollar deal with a complete stranger who wants to try some type of scheme to thwart the giant wall street machine that even government regulators are afraid of controlling. We are not afraid or skittish. We are just very concerned about putting ourselves in the middle of a potential scandal that could very easily erupt, and could make us look like the same manipulators that attacked us in the first place.

We did bring this concept to our legal team and were strongly advised that we would be better off to pass. We do not expect an easy solution to this problem. It has certainly not been easy for us thus far. If a party wanted to make a real investment in our company and negotiate a business strategy, then that would be a concept that we would take a strong look at. The concept that we were proposed does not come close to anything that we could consider.

Patrick Donahoo
Global Links Corp
Investor Relations
pdonahoo@globallinkscorp.com
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By piddly_sum on 12/12/2006 6:14 PM
Feds Rap Hedge Fund
Liz Moyer, 12.12.06, 7:10 PM ET

Another hedge fund is being taken to task for alleged naked short-selling and insider trading in dozens of unregistered securities.

Gryphon Partners, the $310 million Dallas hedge fund run by Edwin "Bucky" Lyon, is the target of a federal civil lawsuit filed Tuesday by the Securities and Exchange Commission, alleging securities fraud in trading of shares in 35 unregistered securities offerings.

http://www.forbes.com/2006/12/12/naked-shorts-gryphon-charges-biz-cx_lm_1212naked.html?partner=yahootix
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By tommytoyz on 12/12/2006 7:13 PM
It's interesting that Global Links would now say such things without offering details. I think it would be more constructive to detail the reasons as to WHY Global Links wouldn't consider this. Any way, the only thing Global Links was asked to do in conjunction with this was to agree to is to pay out 90% of the capitalization that it would have been offered as dividends. Nothing more.

I just became aware that Global Links has severely diluted the share holders by issuing a very large secondary. Perhaps Global Links wants to answer that too while they're at it. With that knowledge, Global Links isn't even a good candidate anymore.

But to stay on topic, nobody at Global Links has detailed the exact reasoning behind what they are saying. What were the exact reasons your legal counsel gave? All I heard and continue to hear from Global Links are generalities that they could be involved in a manipulation scheme. Hey Global Links, no trading is done and nobody is benefiting from a change in the price.

I suggest you read and UNDERSTAND the Dividend Capture Strategy in all it's details before coming out here and making broad statements unsupported by any detailed arguments. It feigns ignorance.

I also don't know why you come out here at all, I didn't even address you directly, other than to point to the 13D filings, which I linked to, as proof of how easy it is to buy more than 100% of issued securities from broker-dealers and that you were skittish to the plan. No reason was given and you blew it off within a day. That's a fact.

Heck even the SEC couldn't understand all the details in one day, even after me explaining it to them with them asking pointed questions. It's clear they didn't quite grasp it right away. But they finally did. You decide to dilute share holders while dismissing this almost out of hand and now coming out here void of details, I really wonder what you guys are doing.

Next time you make a public statement about this strategy, please be specific and to your objections. Global Links is no longer a candidate for this strategy anyway. God knows how many securities you've authorized to issue and could dilute share holders even more. Good riddance I say.
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By tommytoyz on 12/12/2006 7:43 PM
n-tres-ted :
Dividend rights are a right conferred on by the security itself. They are not securities. Even if they were, so what? I can solicit to acquire any security in this country. That's not illegal.

And there are many ways to put the offer to the share holders. For instance, the company could send the offer to borrow the dividend rights along with a proxy statement to all share holders explaining the plan and the reasoning. A public press release could also be released asking share holders to contact a web site and register, etc...I'm sure there are more ways to get to them.

Many companies are closely held as well or held in big blocks by a small number of share holders, making locating most of the shares easy.

This in no way harms share holders and only improves the book value of the enterprise as they get to keep 10% of the new capital. IF shorts cover, so much the better - if they can that is. Remember, trading is prohibited, so most shares will be locked up. How are the shorts supposed to cover in aggregate? They're stuck with no way out. So we repeat the DCS say 10 cycles and then share holders can negotiate a stock buyout for the shorts to exit at a hefty price.

But DCS participants wouldn't participate in the latter part. In any case, in order to shoot holes in the plan, the legal, regulatory framework needs to be understood s well as the details of the plan itself.

All manipulation laws and rules address manipulation in regards to the purchase, sale and the price of securities. But the plan does none of that. Trades of all kinds are prohibited and can't even profit from price changes in the security in any direction.

There are also many many ways to fine tune the strategy. Here's what I wrote on the IV board as a suggestion :

Basically, the proposal to share holders is that UNLESS enough dividend rights can be borrowed by the Strategy, at a cheap enough price, then there won't be any such plan executed with that security, thus no dividends. So it's incumbent on the share holders to cooperate - or at lest enough of them - if they want to see such a strategy executed.

But why would they even cooperate and give up their dividend rights for a time period? At the very very least, the book value per share of the issuer would increase, as they retain 10% of the new capital every cycle. Lets' say you do 10 cycles at 100 million a pop. In the end, the company would have an extra $100 million in book value and cash on hand.

Meanwhile broker-dealers are $350 million poorer. In cash thank you.

Next step is to check the legalities of doing this via a mutual fund, so that all can participate. Worst case, an LLC can be created where small investors can invest and then the LLC, as a qualified investor meeting the 2.5 Million net worth threshold, can invest in a hedge fund to executing this.

It could also be done via an open newsletter, where the newsletter basically "suggests" certain securities and timing actions by investors.

We could also devise it in such a way where there are unrelated parties. One LLC buys the securities in quantities over 100% of the number issued by the issuer (penny stocks will do). The other LLC borrows the dividend rights from the first LLC and executed the DCS. Thank you.

Or perhaps the buying entity can give away to the issuer the option to buy the securities in the future for the same exact price the LLC bought them for, thus eliminating any possibility of any gain from the rise in the price. The plan is all about dividends and PIL - that's it.

Or perhaps 1 or 2 more variations and then do them all at once........let the broker try and figure out what's going on and how......They'll get paranoid, watch..........the secret boot will then be on the other foot. Perhaps we'll then be asking the SEC to maintain the status quo and keep demanding Dividends and PIL payment on all issued "securities entitlements" till broker-dealers are pounded dry.

Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By piddly_sum on 12/12/2006 9:05 PM
Really, all the company has to agree to is to take the money. A no brainer from management's standpoint with the likely side effect of the short position scrambling to cover.

That being said, it is likely that a good candidate for this will have high insider ownership in order to garner the needed over-total of shares.

There are plenty of good targets out there.
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By cynabear on 12/12/2006 9:11 PM
ohhhhhh tommy this is all so good! when does the wild rumpus begin??? really. this has been way too long in coming!
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By cynabear on 12/12/2006 9:16 PM
question: I am assuming that a shareholder only assigns their rights to the stk they own at the time of signing. what would prevent them from then buying more stk to also participate in the potential rise in pps and PILS ? or do they also contract away the right to buy more shares in X co?
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By ontherecord on 12/12/2006 10:37 PM
You should record your phone calls with the SEC, then transcribe the conversations as text that can be posted here.

That way, there will be a public record after all.
Re: Tommytoyz's "Dividend Capture Plan" Causes the SEC and Wall Street to Pucker Up By ZeroSumGame on 12/12/2006 10:46 PM
The counterfeiters often make posts here to the effect that squeezing them will "crash the system" or "cause a depression".

This makes no sense as it is a zero sum game. That means for every loser, there is a winner. The money is transferred from their pockets into ours, but it doesn't leave the system.

If a brokerage (or all of them) go under, we can use our assets to buy up those brokerages. The value hasn't left America.

In fact, the opposite will happen. Trillions of dollars will be sucked from foreign domociled hedge funds that don't pay taxes into the pockets of us working stiffs here.

The wealth effect would be quite stimulating to the economy and would create a boom.

I really don't give a rats ass about 1,000 hedge funds going bankrupt, a dozen custodians going bankrupt or our congressman and senators losing their life savings because they invested it into short funds expecting a 25% annual return.

Unless they can find some way to make this illegal, this plan WILL WORK. If they try to make it illegal