Funny Bunny
Looking for something a little lighter?
Catch Bob's more irreverent and amusing pieces in his Funny Bunny Blog.

Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!!

Location: Blogs Bob O'Brien's Sanity Check Blog    
Posted by:   bobo 11/26/2006 10:26 PM

 ------------------

Sign the Market Reform Petition Now!: View it here.

And read all about how the actual failure to deliver problem is AT LEAST 10 times larger than the DTCC or SEC will admit - drawn from the NYSE's own reporting to the SIA, from the SIA's website - in Bobo's blog on the topic here.

------------------

I've been asked numerous times what the brokers are doing when they put a security entitlement into an investor account, and then, when the share the investor bought doesn't show up, just leave the entitlement there, falsely leading the investor to believe that he has his share. They never break the trade or alert you that you didn't get the goods - rather, they allow you to believe you got what you paid for, even though you didn't.

For a long time I struggled with the various descriptions and explanations I'd heard - counterfeiting shares, naked shorting, fraud...

All of them fit, but somehow fell short of describing precisely what was being done.

I think I've got the answer, though, and I want to share it with you. It is multi-part, but follow along with my reasoning and try to poke a hole in it. Attorneys are encouraged to try to do so - I'd love some input on where I ran off the reservation with this.

First, consider what a security entitlement is, and isn't.

UCC8, the body of rules that defines a security entitlement, requires that there be an expectation of prompt delivery of the underlying security to make the entitlement a bona fide entitlement. It actually requires a one-for-one ratio of genuine securities held by the broker for each security entitlement, or the expectation of a prompt delivery within reasonable time frames - in this case, reasonable being T+3.

So, what happens when T+3 comes and goes, and no share is delivered?

Is there any presumption of prompt delivery any more? Nope, that came and went with no share delivered. So we can assume that a security entitlement absent an underlying security, or the expectation of delivery by T+3, stops being that which UCC8 (the governing body of law) defines as a security entitlement.

Thus, we know what it isn't at that point. What it isn't is a security entitlement as defined by UCC8, which actually gives birth to the animal.

So what then is this thing in our accounts? For the answer, we have no further to look than the Securities Act of 1933.

Before we go much further, I'll tell you what the brokers are doing, and why it is illegal, and what specific area of law they are violating, and why.

Brokers who represent securities entitlements absent underlying securities as "bona fide," and who trick their clients into believing that they own genuine stock (by showing on their screen, or on their account statement, shares of XYZ, when they never received them), and create problems like the ubiquitous over-voting problem, are committing a felony.

What is the crime?

The sale of unregistered securities.

What? How did I get there?

Again, we know what that thing represented to the investor at T+4 isn't, if no stock showed up. What it isn't is a bona fide security entitlement - which as covered before requires delivery of stock on a one-share-per-entitlement basis.

So what is it? I maintain what it is is a "security" as defined by the 1933 Act - not the security the investor thought he was buying, but a different one - a promise, open-ended, of delivery of a genuine share at some unknown and unspecified point in the future.

Consider Section 2 of the 1933 Act, item a, under "Definitions" - number 1:

"1. The term "security" means any note, stock, treasury stock, security future, bond, debenture, evidence of indebtedness, certificate of interest or participation in any profit-sharing agreement, collateral-trust certificate, preorganization certificate or subscription, transferable share, investment contract, voting-trust certificate, certificate of deposit for a security, fractional undivided interest in oil, gas, or other mineral rights, any put, call, straddle, option, or privilege on any security, certificate of deposit, or group or index of securities (including any interest therein or based on the value thereof), or any put, call, straddle, option, or privilege entered into on a national securities exchange relating to foreign currency, or, in general, any interest or instrument commonly known as a "security", or any certificate of interest or participation in, temporary or interim certificate for, receipt for, guarantee of, or warrant or right to subscribe to or purchase, any of the foregoing."

Yup. That fits the bill, alright. A promise of future performance for delivery of a security, is actually also a security. That's what it says...

So our forefathers understood what constituted a security, and defined it pretty clearly. So far so good. A promise of future performance meets that sniff test, and has all the necessary qualities of a security, per the Act.

But then, who issued the security? Not the company. The company issued genuine shares of stock. That isn't what this item is. This is a different kind of security, one that is a futures contract of sorts, with a commitment at a future unspecified point in time to deliver one of the company's securities.

So who issued this IOU for shares, which the investor believes to be the genuine article?

Well, the broker did.

Which makes the broker the "issuer." Follow? Again, from Section 2, Definition #4:

"4. The term "issuer" means every person who issues or proposes to issue any security; except that with respect to certificates of deposit, voting-trust certificates, or collateral-trust certificates, or with respect to certificates of interest or shares in an unincorporated investment trust not having a board of directors (or persons performing similar functions) or of the fixed, restricted management, or unit type, the term "issuer" means the person or persons performing the acts and assuming the duties of depositor or manager pursuant to the provisions of the trust or other agreement or instrument under which such securities are issued; except that in the case of an unincorporated association which provides by its articles for limited liability of any or all of its members, or in the case of a trust, committee, or other legal entity, the trustees or members thereof shall not be individually liable as issuers of any security issued by the association, trust, committee, or other legal entity; except that with respect to equipment-trust certificates or like securities, the term "issuer" means the person by whom the equipment or property is or is to be used; and except that with respect to fractional undivided interests in oil, gas, or other mineral rights, the term "issuer" means the owner of any such right or of any interest in such right (whether whole or fractional) who creates fractional interests therein for the purpose of public offering."

Huh. So the broker, by issuing this security (which meets all the criteria of a security per the act), acts as the "issuer" as defined above. He's issuing "securities" as defined in 1 and selling them to the public. Sounds like an issuer to me.

It really is simple. The issuer sells (also defined in number 3 of the same Section) the investor a security he has issued.

But there's a problem in all this.

The security he sold the investor, misrepresenting it as a genuine company share, hasn't been registered anywhere. It is thus an unregistered security.

What does the 1933 Act have to say about the sale of unregistered securities? Well, it is a huge no no, a criminal act, really. Felony time.

But where does that bring us, the investors harmed by the sale of unregistered securities? Can't the SEC just exempt these unregistered securities the brokers are issuing from any requirements, and then call them "exempted" securities, thereby letting the industry off the hook to comply with the law of the land?

Nope. The SEC is only allowed to exempt things when it is necessary for investor protection. I'd love to see them argue in court that exempting the sale of unregistered securities by issuers falsely representing them to investors as genuine somehow protects investors. I'd take the other side of that bet in a challenge.

No, believe it or not, brokers are subject to the 1933 Act just as everyone else is. Just as the SEC is. That's who the Acts were actually written to rein in - Wall Street. There aren't any complex jurisdictional issues in play, or free speech, or any of that. There is simply the sale of unregistered securities, which is illegal.

Now, the SEC could also argue that because they call these unregistered securities "security entitlements" even though they lack the basic essence of a bona fide entitlement - the underlying share - the SEC is somehow conferring upon this unregistered security some power as a bona fide entitlement. But the SEC doesn't have that power. It can't by waving its bureaucratic hand exclude unregistered securities from the 1933 Act by calling them something different.

No, we are back to the sale of unregistered securities by the brokers, who are acting as the issuers.

So what rights do we, as investors, have, having been sold these unregistered securities, falsely represented to us as genuine?

Well, the most obvious is rescission.

We have the right to demand our money back, immediately.

Why is that a big deal?

Well, aside from the criminal and civil sanctions for selling unregistered securities, imagine if every person who was holding these unregistered securities, in say, Overstock, who had paid $65, or $55, or $45, or $35, demanded their money back and went to court to get it.

There's no way to stall a simple rescission issue. It either is the genuine security they bought and paid for, or it isn't. If not, they get their money back.

Think that one through. Think it through for OTCBB companies who have billions of unregistered securities floating around their brokers simply refuse to give them certificates for.

What is the likely interest from the prime brokers in allowing their hedge fund customers to take all the cash difference between their original sale at $65 and today's mark to market price of $15, if the brokers are going to be liable to give every penny of it back to those they have so far smugly tricked?

Want to bet it is zero?

That kills the whole financial driver for tunneling the price of a security by creating massive artificial volume. If the brokers are going to have to disgorge 100% of the cash via rescission, they will lose interest in letting crime pay for their hedge fund clients.

That, and some folks will likely go to jail, unless Congress decides it is suddenly OK to sell unregistered securities.

I'm no lawyer, so I don't know if brokers are allowed to sell unregistered securities whenever they feel like it. But my hunch is that the 1933 and 34 Acts say it isn't, as my read of it leads me to believe.

My thinking is that there should be class actions on behalf of every Reg SHO list company's shareholders, suing the prime brokers for simple rescission, unless they can prove that 100% of the entitlements they are representing to their clients as genuine securities entitlements, have the requisite one-for-one shares tucked away in their name at the DTC. Ditto for companies on the OTCBB who cannot get their certificates.

We know from Byrne's presentation that in OSTK, the prime brokers and MMs don't have one-for-one shares for claims on shares (unregistered securities)..

And that means they now have a really big problem, IMO.

Question is which class action guys will be the first to file? There's everything one needs - deep pockets, clearly wronged parties, an easy-to-define crime, punitive damages, interest due on the cash they defrauded investors out of by selling them these unregistered securities, criminal penalties the DOJ can come at them for...

Thoughts?

 

Copyright ©2006 Bob O'Brien
Permalink  |  Trackback
Comments (76)
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By Milton on 11/27/2006 8:09 AM
They all know about the problem.

During our meeting, we had a sidebar debate about ‘naked short selling’ — a process in which a stock is sold short without the cover of borrowed stock.” Walker said at a November 16 Atlas Economic Research Foundation dinner at the Willard Hotel in Washington, D.C.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZGYzZGJlMmJiNzMwZGQ3NzgwZjRiMWEzOGY2MjJhZGM=
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By Mosses on 11/27/2006 8:13 AM
My account forms say I am subject to go to arbitration on any dispute.

How can I file suit in court?

Thank You

Mosses
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By repo on 11/27/2006 11:24 AM
Surveys:

http://www.icma-group.org/content/surveys/repo/latest.html
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By sealman29 on 11/27/2006 11:32 AM
Bobo, if the crime is felonious selling of unregistered securities IMO that may be prosecuted at the state level. Could bring the states into this fight rather quickly without fear of SIA, SEC interference.
Right, wrong, maybe?
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By Mosses on 11/27/2006 11:36 AM
Bob, I am not an attorney.

I am looking forward to you being the first to file such a suit.

When will we be able to see the filing by you?

Mosses
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By bobo on 11/27/2006 11:37 AM
Reference: Given the articles at antisocialmedia.com, and the clear pattern of certain Wall Street quisling hack writers controlling the content there, I wouldn't believe a word on Wikepedia. Just review the idiocy that has been placed under Naked Short Selling by one of lilGW's sock puppets, complete with touts for his forgettable screeds.
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By sick bastards on 11/27/2006 12:01 PM
Authorities closed the Lincoln Memorial on Monday after finding suspicious bottles in a restroom and a note reading "Do you know what anthrax is?" and "Do you know what a bomb is?", a law enforcement official told The Associated Press.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/4362443.html
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By Iona Hogbin on 11/27/2006 1:22 PM
Uh oh, a new book is out:

Hedge Funds For Dummies

http://www.dealbreaker.com/2006/11/hedge_fund_dummies.php
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By suspicious death on 11/27/2006 1:33 PM
The British government appealed for calm on Monday as scientists discovered more traces of radiation and three people who reported symptoms were being tested for the deadly radioactive poison that killed former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko.

http://www.berkshireeagle.com/ci_4729313
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By Iona Hogbin on 11/27/2006 1:42 PM
Maybe we need to hire Arthur Abbey.

Shareholders of the Tennessee-based regional retailer Goody's Family Clothing balked last year when management proposed a leveraged buyout. A later lawsuit revealed that the private-equity firm chosen was not the highest bidder. When the process was finally opened up, a three-way bidding war added 20 percent to the $327 million price tag.

Arthur Abbey, whose law firm, Abbey Spanier Rodd Abrams & Paradis, represented several of the shareholders, says that the higher bid proved that "both the price and the process was unfair." Saying management-led buyouts are "replete with conflicts," Abbey adds: "My view is that the only independent review these deals ever get is in a lawsuit by shareholders themselves."

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/biztech/articles/061126/4equity_4.htm
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By AntiWeiss on 11/27/2006 2:12 PM
Iona Hogbin, the site lost credibility when I saw it linked to Lil GW as part of its blog roll.
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By selene on 11/27/2006 2:14 PM
This is a bit off topic, but it's funny you bring up the unregistered securities because doesn't OSTK have a few of these that remain a liability. That the owners have the right/option to demand their money back. My memory is not so good so I could be wrong, but if Overstock has to follow the law then I'm with you bunny, so do the brokers.

Selene
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By bobo on 11/27/2006 2:17 PM
Sealman: I would need to see the state by state law governing the sale of unregistered securities, but would tend to agree that there should be state laws outlawing such a thing, which could be used without bringing it into federal court. Just as murder can be either a federal or state crime, so too this.

Mosses: I hate to give away too much info, and lose my suspense-driven appeal for my readers. I'm sure you understand. Stay tuned is all I will say.
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By Browntrout on 11/27/2006 2:45 PM
Bobo- Over the years I have seen many individuals and brokers get hung for selling unregistered securities, considered a real no-no by everyone including the states. It seems to be a favorite prosecution item utilized by many states. The question is can you get the states to recognize this as a sale of unregistered securities and actually willing to do something about it. After all no one seems to feel that the counterfeiting of securities is important to prosecute. The states have been aware of the naked shorting issue for years and except for Utah(who backed down immediately) have completely ignored the problem.

The states would be the natural place to rally the cause except for two very good reasons: most state regulators are bumbling incompetents, and the amount of money it is going to take to bring this through the courts will be huge. You will need some very deep pockets to win. After all, the lying, cheating, bastard crooks will just use the stolen money to defend themselves for years and if they lose the stolen money will never completely return to its rightful owners. Maybe a token amount does return or an industry wide settlement for a penny on the dollar gets paid. Remember it is their "street" you get to play on and traverse. Don't ever forget that "they" own it much like the Federal Reserve is not "ours".
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By hwh on 11/27/2006 3:02 PM
Very Well Put!
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By ranger on 11/27/2006 4:53 PM
BOBO CASH cures all problems. You think that folks want shares, they want cash period. If the cash is there when they sell it or when they buy it nothing else matters. That is the way it is and will always be. The rules only show up when somebody does not get the cash. As long as the folks running the show have the cash the plundering will continue. The system will have to break before it gets fixed. Sorry to keep posting the same message but I think you know it is the truth and no amount of information can keep a train from going off the tracks when it derails.
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By TheresASpyInTheHouse on 11/27/2006 4:59 PM
Two questions:

If you are correct, is there is a civil cause of action, or do you have to find a prosecutor?

Second, what remedy do you have if your broker becomes insolvent? First one to the courthouse comes out whole and any one who comes later is screwed?
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By broke flat on 11/27/2006 5:44 PM
"Now, whether the SEC can be sued because they are allowing the sale of unregistered securities by brokers is a different question, although an intriguing one."

The question arises, inasmuch as the SEC has given permission to sell and FTD to many parties, whether the brokers can use that as their defense. Market makers, option as well as specialists, have permission to sell without delivering in order to maintain an orderly and efficent market. Therefore, there must be some exception that is at least understood to exist when a trade remains in the FTR state for long periods of time. And, whether such 'FTR is OK' policy is spelled out or not, it's a requirement if the FTD is OK.

It would appear that the SEC has enabled the problem, illegally circumventing the intent of congress more than likely, but that's the rules by which all are operating.

So then; is that a valid defense?
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By terrorism = money/bribes, sick and sicker on 11/27/2006 6:14 PM
Australian exporter paid $222m bribes to Saddam


http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9065-2474718,00.html
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By rummy on 11/27/2006 6:34 PM
During prohibitiion, the rum runners paid off the police and judges, but that didn't create new law. New law is enacted by politicians.

If fails are such a great idea, they should open it right up so we can all sell shares that don't exist. I could use a new jag - seems like a plan to me.

Or do you have to be part of "the enterprise"?

Some piggies are more equal than others?
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By has greed consumed executive souls on 11/27/2006 6:38 PM
Indiana has negotiated an unsigned contract with a single team led by IBM Corp. and ACS to privatize the system of determining who is eligible for food stamps, Medicaid and welfare. The agreement, which is under federal review, would be worth about $1 billion over 10 years.

http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/news/local/

16109569.htm
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By flying piles of do do everywhere on 11/27/2006 6:49 PM
It will claim AWB's payment of $290 million in kickbacks to Iraq led to shareholders losing more than half the value of their stock, with the company's share price plummeting since the Cole inquiry began in mid-January.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/

0,20867,20834990-601,00.html
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By bobo on 11/27/2006 7:14 PM
Theresaspyinthehouse: There is a civil cause of action - rescission - I want my money back, as what you sold me is a different, unregistered security than the one I paid for. I bought a genuine share of stock issued by the company - what I got was an IOU with none of the rights of a genuine share, but rather a promise at some future date of delivery of a genuine share. One is a genuine security registered by the company, the other is a security issued by the broker.

As to what is your recourse, that is the interesting thing. The reason these are brokers, chartered with exchanging your money for that guy's shares, is because there is no such thing as a fractional stock bank. It is not legal to create fractional ownership of stocks and then create securities that aren't the full, one-for-one ownership item, and represent them as genuine.

Fractional banking is the Federal Reserve, where your money sits in an account - but it doesn't really - what sits in the account are claims on the real money, in terms of hundred dollar bills. Even those bills are not money per se, but rather they are in turn claims on money backed by the full credit of the US government.

What sits in your brokerage account is supposed to be a claim on a share, on a one for one basis, with genuine securities in the vault at the DTC. When there are too few securities at the DTC to supply genuine securities to all the security entitlements in investor accounts, then the ability to get you the securities, or the cash that would come from the sale of genuine securities, is backed by the credit of your broker. Which is probably fine as long as there is no run on the stock bank. When there is, the broker could go belly up, and all you have is a legal claim against the broker. That's it. A contract dispute.

How many retirees are thinking that their retirements are safe with their 401K at one of the prime brokers, when in fact who knows how many genuine securities are being held on their behalf?

The brokers, by their ownership of the exchanges and the clearing and settlement system, have de facto created a fractional banking system for stock - the only hitch is that they aren't banks, they are brokers, when they are in their custodial role buying and selling stock.

It is strangely fascinating to me that it changed from you own the stock, to you own a claim that may or may not represent anything but the broker's sleight of hand, and by eliminating paper certificates, they have eliminated the only mechanism for you to check.

They are pulling a Federal Reserve scam, only it is banned by the 1933 and 1934 Acts - that's their only hitch in the giddyup. Not to worry, just buy the SEC over time, and you can get them to approve rules and exemptions that hurt investors and contradict the plain language and express wishes of the Acts - and here's the best part: Nobody will likely be the wiser, and if they are, you can brand them as lunatics, secure in the knowledge that nobody will ever call you on it as all the money is on your side.

So long response, but yes, you are screwed if this melts down and the brokers go bust, a la Refco. The money is already gone. It went away over the last 5 years, hundreds of billions of it, and it is no longer in the system. It is in hockey rinks, and Picassos, and jets, and big boats, and CT real estate. They BK, you hold the bag.

Classic redistribution of wealth, a la S&L scandal. Hundreds of billions gone, never to be recovered, and you, the taxpayer, get to foot the bill.

Who do you think is going to foot it this time, when "for the good of God and country" the brokers "who are too important to our great nation to fail" are bailed out by the Government they bought and paid for? When you hear that load of crap, and believe me, you will, bear in mind that what it really means is that it is OK for them to steal all your money, but if it comes time to disgorge it, the rules are different.

That hasn't changed for centuries, and I don't anticipate that it will change now.
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By plastic word hater on 11/27/2006 7:16 PM
Will lawmakers ever WAKE UP and get their head out of their ass or will they just continue to bounce around plastic words?
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By great post, get this party started on 11/27/2006 7:36 PM


Actually there still is a way to do this, assuming doing it all at once would cause a Greater Depression. And that way is to take down the boys one at a time, in a very demonstrative way. 

By this I mean prosecute/jail/reclaim assets of one of the brokers or hedgies. It will take awhile to drag thru the courts. But let it be known that after #1 is done, there is #2, followed by #3, etc, without letting anyone know who #2,3,n is. Once #1 is on his way to be taken down, and it is obvious the he is going down, you'll be surprised at how the others will "come around". This technique worked great for Al Capone, and it would work here. Nothing wrong with borrowing some techniques from the Great Depression era. Someone needs to get severely shot in a dramatic way, for others to notice. So let the DOJ at it and relegate the SEC to the dustbin of history.

http://www.investorvillage.com/smbd.asp?

mb=4148&mn=22591&pt=msg&mid=901821
Another Suggestion By Roundclock on 11/27/2006 7:43 PM
I think it makes sense to "follow the money" as it relates to NSS. The money starts, in part, with pension funds who allocate a portion of our savings to various investment vehicles, including hedge funds.

Shouldn't these funds certify that the investment vehicles they utilize in their capacity as our fiduciaries don't sponsor, support, or in any way abet criminal activity as recognized by the laws of the United States? This would affirimatively obligate them to perform a particular form of due diligence, much like CEO's under Sarbanes-Oxley are compelled to do something similar.
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By tommytoyz on 11/27/2006 7:43 PM
Bobo,
I agree with you 100%. The reason why nobody ever went after FTDs is because the investing public has no direct recourse over FTDs from one broker or clearing member to another. It's an inter-Wall Street thing.

However, the only way long term open FTDs is even possible is to find some final victim that is willing to accept these FTDs in exchange for money. That would be the investing public and it's done by crediting unregistered securities to their accounts.

Only thing is that the investing public never agreed to accept these FTDs handed to them via unregistered securities credited and issued to them by their own brokers.

It's now the executing brokers Vs. the investing public. The introducing brokers may actually be innocent, as they rely on the executing brokers to do the deeds for them and are just crediting the investor accounts in reliance on the what ever the executing brokers represent to the introducing brokers.

Introducing brokers normally don't have a DTC account either and rely on the larger executing brokers to hold the real securities for them.

So in going after brokers in this way, we need to be sure we hit the right targets and the right culpable brokers. We also need to ask, if someone is using an introducing broker, who is correctly crediting securities as the cooperating executing broker is representing, does the investor have a right to sue the executing broker?
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By mig on 11/27/2006 8:39 PM
Bobo,

I think this is on topic as it is a way to show that the security you bought is an unregistered security.

I know of people who have been burned and my brokerage tried to burn me once (in a cash IRA account) by the timing of buying shares in relation to dividend declaration date. The declaration date is always days if not weeks before the dividend date. Try buying shares of, say, NFI 2 or 3 days before x-dividend date. Your brokerage will deny you the dividend, because they will tell you that it takes a few days to change the registration of the shares.

I thought the whole point of x-dividend was to give a specific date they could go back to. To show who owned the stock. It shouldn't be to hard to go back and show that on Nov 20th John Doe bought 300 shares of xyz and John smith sold 300 shares of xyz...so Doe gets the dividend and smith doesn't.

If you were to sell NFI 1-2 days before x-dividend you would be denied the dividend because you sold before the x-dividend date. If you bought the stock 1 day before x-dividend you should get the dividend that was denied to the person who sold pre x-dividend.

In my instance I was able to argue with my brokerage and get paid because it was about 10 days before x-dividend and I had bought shares of the same company in another brokerage on the same day and got paid the dividend at the other brokerage.

The brokerages have used the T+5 (or T+385) to do the following.
1. Create a float...wherein they can use your money for extra days.
2. Skim dividends off of a percentage of the trading volume in the week(s) before x-dividend.

This lag in ownership between when you buy the stock and being declared an owner on x-dividend I would think would be evidence that you have not purchased stock but a promise that your brokerage will buy it for you at some point in the future. If that is not told to you then is that considered an unregistered security?


mig
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By fed on 11/27/2006 9:02 PM
These stock brokers, who think they are stock bankers have set up the perfect crime.

You can't sue them because of the daisy chaining. If the police raid your brokerage, they will have a firm contract with a custodian that could exactly match your entitlements. It doesn't matter if the custodian has enough shares as you aren't party to that contract. That's a contract between your brokerage and their custodian.

The hedge funds can sue because their prime brokerages are also custodians - no daisy chaining.

The bankers actually started this way. A "bank note" was a promissary note from the bank to you that they owed the bearer money (gold or silver). At first, each bank minted their own note, but over time, they set up central holding companies they owned or central banks to print these notes.

Over time, they decided that owning the entitlement was good enough and they did away with the gold and silver in the vaults, just as they want to get rid of stock certificates. You can trade your entitlements for stock for entitlements for gold or silver (money). The companies that form the value behind the entitlements don't matter.

These parasites have been using the ability to control the money supply to control elected officials for generations.

They CAN be stopped. They are feeble old men who will cower as we pull back the curtains and expose them for all to see. We need to take back the levers of power. A good first step would be to get rid of the concept of moving stock out of state to foreign custodians and depositories state officials can't audit.
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By fed on 11/27/2006 9:11 PM
I was going to put a link to the articles on debt free money from Wikipedia, but when I started reading them, they were pure nonsense. They are just as poorly edited with bullshit as the naked shorting one.

Instead, try googling "debt money". Our standard of living is much lower than it should be because the privately ownerd banking system taxes us through inflation each year. The reason is the system is mathematically unstable.

The banks only create money to back loans. If all loans were paid off, there would be no money. The problem is they only create the principle and the interest is extraneous to the system. They have to encourage more borrowing the following year so there will be enough funds in circulation to pay interest.

Anything that grows geometrically will reach a maximum size.

At some point, people stop borrowing and they need wars to justify government borrowing and empire to bring in wealth from elsewhere. Finally, the system collapses in a depression and is reborn with a new monetary system. It is about kings controlling the serfs by using their control of money to buy off elected officials.

This document is likely a hoax, but the person who wrote it understands how the banksters think and it is a good mathematical model of how the economy works.

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/silent_weapons_quiet_wars.htm
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By fed on 11/27/2006 9:18 PM
One last thought.

It is a mistake to look at the past to predict the future as history is not linear and doesn't always repeat itself.

This time IS different. A lot of people know about the private control of the US dollar, a lot of people know there are more "eurodollars" and "petrodollars" than dollars (and what that means if they are repatrioted) and a lot of people know about naked shorting.

People want peace and democracy and are sick and tired of a declining standard of living because a bunch of rich old men control a system they set up to skim wealth from the rest of us.

The internet backs it different and I don't think they will be able to react as quickly as the tsunami of angry investors start looking for individual human beings to take revenge on.
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By n-tres-ted on 11/27/2006 9:47 PM
Bobo,

No reason to avoid federal court as the venue for getting a resolution of your approach to resolving the actions of these NSS/FTD artists. Federal courts are faster to judgment, which is normally what plaintiffs want. None of this anti-SLAPP delaying nonsense as is occurring in the California state court in the OSTK vs. Rocker/Gradient lawsuit. But I'm sure you will have access to good legal advice on securities law. Just an idea to consider.
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By bobo on 11/27/2006 9:58 PM
Ntrested: I'm not shy on Federal court. Current actions in state court could be modified and the cause added without destabilizing the state nexus. It is just a discussion point.

I'm thinking I might want to actually finish Symphony of Greed now - most of the puzzle pieces are known, and this movement needs a book that a guy can read on a cross country flight and wind up understanding how he's being screwed.

I'll add it to the list of things to do. Meanwhile, I am putting the final touches on a blog that summarizes a pretty interesting conversation today.
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By lil GW is self recommending on IV board on 11/27/2006 10:38 PM
lil GW is self recommending on IV board.

looks like GW didn't realize the "rec" number on a post can be clicked to show the usernames that "rec" it. A user "garyweiss" has "rec"'s on all Scipio posts. This is getting funnier and funnier as it goes along.
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By bobo on 11/27/2006 10:48 PM
Huh. He really is a dullard. This typifies the scumbags we are up against - they think they are smarter than we are by virtue of repetition of the notion, and when constantly proved wrong in their assumption, they merely pretend that they saw and heard nothing. Perhaps we should all help Scipio out with a big round of applause there?

When you see the rot in Wikepedia, and read the account of his lies and duplicity available for perusal at antisocialmedia, it really doesn't take much to see the outline of the plot...
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By Alan S. on 11/28/2006 12:10 AM
Bobo,

I agree with most of what you say, but CMKX is a poor example. How can CMKX be a scam? I owned about 20 million shares, participated in the cert pull and got my certs. Where has anyone said there was a shortage on certs? The task force has disbanded and the company has gone silent. I think the owners screwed us but the fanatics refuse to move on with their lives until they are officially told it's over.

Secondly, going after brokers for selling unregistered securities and demanding our money back let's the ba$turds off very easily! What about the damages caused by tanking the company instead of watching it grow. If you they only have to give the money back on the ones they get caught on I think they'll still make a lot of money at this, unless the authorities demand restitution through a short squeeze they'll still be very profitable.
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By rvac106 on 11/28/2006 12:48 AM
Wow, what an eye opener. I was going to ask Bobo about the book. It seems every blog contains another potential chapter, and where do you draw the line? Perhaps it should be published as a monthly.

I have an admission: I use TRowePrice as my online broker. I pay too much. On the other hand, when I asked them to send me a certificate for 5500 shares of NFI, they did so without hesitation. Doesn't this mean that anyone who wants to rescind their order from a broker would first have to try to pull their certs? NFI is my largest holding, by far. All the other items in my port are piddly, in comparison. I need everyone else to try to pull their certs from their brokers. But haven't we been asking our readers here and on other boards to do just that for a couple of years? Better tell 'em again, Bob.

RVAC
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By bbhindyou on 11/28/2006 4:38 AM
Alan I just talked to a friend who requested his cmkx certs from e trade months ago and all he can get is a confirmation of his cert request ,no certs for him yet.
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By MM's are scumbags on 11/28/2006 5:55 AM
Market Watchers,

The systemic abuses into the trading of Jag Media (JAGHE) continue unabated, as the fear of being caught remains thin.

Last week for example, on three consecutive trading days (Mon - Wed) a single block of 100,000 shares was executed at precisely 3:30. The market maker that was running the show for the week was FANC as they represented a market of sellers but no buyers. These 300,000 shares now sold is over and above the 1 million plus shares that have been executed in single large blocks since September 2006 on a daily basis at 3:30 p.m.

The 100,000 block trade was reduced to 45,000 shares on Friday due to the light trading volume after the holiday.

As for that market maker, FANC, they are some small firm that sells primarily for institutional and hedge fund clients with very little volume derived from the retail business.

Monday (today) brings in a new player for the week and one that seems to rotate with FANC; vFinance (VFIN).

Today, the emphasis is on knocking back the stock and do so aggressively (remember Sedona? "Sell with unbridled levels of aggression" was the in the audio transcripts the DOJ now possesses). Become sellers willing to sell to a lower and lower market despite what the market may have to offer. Sell Down!!

And how obvious is it?

Consider that for every sale on the down tick there were 3 sales on the uptick but the stock continued to drop as the represented markets followed the down ticks. vFinance continued to lower the boom one after the other acting out the desperate seller routine. Three, Four, Five trades into the offer, a single trade into the bid, and the offer is dropped. Three more into the offer, a single trade into the bid, and the offer drops with the bid again.

Routines! A market controlled by a single market maker who also represents the hedge fund community with very little retail selling under their portfolio.

For VFIN and FANC, this Abbott and Costello routine has been one lasting months as the two firms flip on playing the bad guy for the week. This week appears to be vFinance in the barrel after FANC had the barrel last week.

If you are wondering how hard vFinance was selling, the $0.42 stock has dropped to $0.32 with much of the activity representing buyers into the Offers. A 10% market loss taking place on buy side volume with a single firm representing the total selling market and that firm representing something other than the retail market.

Now lets use the actual trading to illustrate.

Consider a Market represented by $0.37 Bid X $0.38 Offer and the previous trade represented on the uptick at $0.38. Now comes that market raid where orderly is not part of the equation:

Trade 11:58:17 5000 shares $0.37 Downtick
Trade 11:58:17 5000 shares $0.37 Cancelled
Trade 12:01:08 8000 shares $0.36 Downtick
Trade 12:06:25 5000 shares $0.35 Downtick
Trade 12:06:25 5000 shares $0.35 Cancelled
Trade 12:16:33 5000 shares $0.34 Downtick
Trade 12:16:33 5000 shares $0.34 Cancelled
Trade 12:16:47 5000 shares $0.32 Downtick

And there you have it, vFinance chased the bid down with the offer and in a matter of 17 minutes the $0.38 stock was a $0.32 stock on 28,000 shares that remained as reported volume and another 15,000 shares that was later cancelled volume.

Where did this raid bring the market? By 12:50 it was now trading at $0.30 and falling as vFinance continues to lower the boom with a seller now desperate to unload a position well below the previous market close and well below what investors are willing to pay. In fact, after an additional 28,000 shares between $0.33 and $0.35 seemed to bring new hope to investors, the boom was lowered again on 25,000 shares reported of which 10,000 was summarily cancelled. The $0.35 stock now trading at $0.30 representing a 28% loss for the day.

Recall how it was just last week that 300,000 shares traded between the bid and offer of $0.28 X $0.29 after a similar raid brought the stock to $0.12 from a previous $0.32 on merely 8,000 shares.

So I ask again of you market professionals who are obligated by law to maintain order in our markets.

1. How is it that two market makers (VFIN, FNAC) control the majority of all selling in this stock and yet these market makers have very little retail markets?
2. Based on the identical nature of how these market makers are executing trades (right down to the big block trade executed to 1/100 penny levels daily at 3:30) who has this type of inventory and yet has failed to file any holdings with the SEC?
3. What type of sophisticated seller would sell down their investment in such a brutal nature as this "professional" is doing unless the need to maintain lower market is necessary which thus leads to why? Jag Media has no reported shorts to speak of (sub 15,000 shares) and minimal fails if any as it is not on the Reg. SHO list. So why the aggressive tactics.
4. Where are the market members responsible for maintaining an orderly market? In a stock with buyers lifting the $0.40 offer at the open is now aggressively trading it down 28%. If this is not a market raid, what is? Maybe somebody can descibe what a modern day bear raid really is if this isn't it.

My prediction for this day ---- another big block will be planted at the close to the resolution of 1/100 penny near 3:30. This time it will be vFinance as last week it was FANC. Different market makers same pattern means same seller and a seller who can connect with the market makers. I want my prediction out before the day ends so that there will be no doubt - I told you so.


Dave Patch
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By MM's are scumbags on 11/28/2006 5:58 AM
His prediction was true a block of 150,000 traded at 3.27.

Scumbags that need to be stopped or they will destroy our country.
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By selene on 11/28/2006 6:50 AM
Here's how my dad explained it to me. I know Bob doesn't like analogies, but here it goes:

Imagine you are a land broker in Florida. Speculators buy land for the sole purpose of trying to flip it later at a higher price. There is no real intention to develop (land improvements) this land. Now brokers work the game on the up side by feeding the belief that the land will increase in value at double digits and that you'll be able to sell out at a nice profit in no time. A cycle of greater fools is created and at some point in the future the land is selling at a nose bleed price. Keep in mind, that the brokers have reaped comm. the whole way through this process. Cutting 3% or thereabouts on every flip. With the land at such high prices it's clear to most that the game is up, but if the game is up, then the brokers are looking at reduced revenues from comm. So what now?

Well, the Broker realizing the price is ridiculous. Knowing that the land is solely purchased for speculation and not development starts selling land that he does not have title to sell. He does this because he knows he can go in an replace a fake title with a real one, but at a greatly reduced price (as the market softens and comes back to reality).

Now, our brokers have big mouths. They just can't keep their proprietory trading to themselves and they talk to outsiders. In fact, some of the outsiders where once insiders. So more and more firms start playing this game. YOu would think that this would mess things up, but what actually happens is the land speculators sell out before the broker has to deliver him the actual land, and he does so at reduced prices. The Broker just cuts him a check and pockets the difference. As many of you know, the supply and demand dynamic is broken because as more of the brokers do this they increase supply while demand stays constant (all else equal).

The same works for stocks as Patrick describes in through the looking glass, what is not the same is that this is harder to do in land and title has to pass. In the case of stocks, no paper need be delivered or better yet, people don't ask for the paper. What's more, sometimes the brokers (their prop. traders) may get it wrong. Sometimes they think they have a fraudulant company that turns out to be solid. This really messes things up for them, but over all they have a high probability of success as long as too many cooks aren't in the kitchen. I think we've reached the stage of to many cooks in the kitchen and this is helping to expose what is being done. What started out as a way to short without exposing it as such has now turned into an outright mess. Why do you think the SEC is playing around with the rules on Shorting??? Why???

This is not my dad's area of expert, but it seems to make sense to me. Keep in mind I'm not the smartest tool in the shed.

Selene
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By mm on 11/28/2006 7:23 AM
Why do we have market makers? Why can't we put our own bids and offers into the system.

All they do is create sell side pressure, manipulation through wash trades and canceled trades, then like a parasite, take a percentage of the transaction for providing no socially useful service.
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By mm on 11/28/2006 7:25 AM
Selene, the problem is derivitives have a different risk reward profile than a straight purchase.

A land speculator would want a discount if s/he knew that it was an option to purchase as opposed to a purchase.

You see this happen - people will put 5% down on a property, then walk away if the price goes against them. The difference is the buyer / seller knows it is only an option on a sale as opposed to a sale. That's why they don't have to put up 100%.

The bottom line is it is incredibily scammy to take the public's money, telling them share prices are set by supply and demand, when in reality they are set by market makers and specialists who choose a price level where they don't lose money.
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By selene on 11/28/2006 7:34 AM
MM

I agree with you 100%. Also this is exactly what Bob is saying. They have created a new unregistered security. Of course we would have other variables to consider the most important being counterparty risk. Sure. I'm 100% with you. (that doesn't mean much though, I'm 22)

Selene
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By bbhindyou on 11/28/2006 7:59 AM
What do I want for christmas
If only...
Dear mr bill gates ..
I have heard that you are the guy with the computers and take a interest in good works.
The web site thesanitycheck.com has some documents listed that are about failure to deliver totals.If you could take a look at wether or not these 'add' up or not and if they don't , why we sure would appreciate it .
If the posted documents add up to a robbery could you do us all a favor?
Could you buy back america for us?
By buying and getting the certificates on the american companys before the electronic system comes online it would probably cause the covering of these positions at a good return for us all.
Merry Christmas
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By Willy Loman on 11/28/2006 9:36 AM
UCC Article 8 allows for "securities entitlements" to be booked in advance of delivery of the actual underlying security. It does not address the T+3 requirement in Section 8-301 but merely defines the moment of delivery ("delivery occurs when..."). The T+3 delivery requirement is embodied in SEC Rule 15c6-1, but Rule 10(a)2 contains the toothless loophole that delivery must be made "as soon as it is possible without undue inconvenience or expense." I believe it is this loophole that allows for the "securities entitlement" fiction to persist on the books without a delivery "violation" (despite Section 17A's requirement of "prompt and accurate clearance and settlement of securities transactions"). Otherwise, a "violation" by a broker could be construed as a 10(b)5 manipulative and/or deceptive device and a violation of Section 9 (http://www.law.uc.edu/CCL/34Act/sec9.html) and we simply can't have that now, can we? In other words, although brokers are thieves and counterfeiters as a matter of fact, it would take a fairly hefty legal stretch to convince a judge that these state-sanctioned thieves are engaged in the sale of "unregistered securities" as a matter of law. That's how I see it, anyway.
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By bobo on 11/28/2006 10:35 AM
Willy: So UCC8 allows a securities entitlement to essentially be an open ended IOU for delivery whenever and if-ever the broker feels like getting around to it?

Does it address how long is reasonable for the victim..er..investor to wait before the SE "fails" and is no longer a reasonable expectation of prompt delivery? A week? A month? A year? 5 years? Never, as it would be way too expensive to buy real securities and is far more convenient and cheap to just sell non-existent shares?

You are kidding me, right?
Re: Counterfeiting? Fraud? Maybe...But There's More!!! By Take a Bite out of NSS on 11/28/2006 10:40 AM
This is one of the better threads