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NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance

Location: Blogs Bob O'Brien's Sanity Check Blog    
Posted by:   bobo 9/22/2006 5:45 AM

The NY Times had an article today that perfectly summarizes what is wrong with the SEC and the NY financial press.

I'd link it, but you have to be a subscriber to read it, so why bother?

The deck was completely stacked against any sentiment that was pro public or investor - Dave Patch wrote an eloquent summary that covers that nicely.

One of the pundits at the roundtable Norris sides with is Owen Lamont, who is on sabbatical from his day job to work for a group that seems suspiciously like a hedge fund - what a surprise that he is pro-hedge fund. No conflicts here.

As of July, he's on leave from Yale and working for DKR Fusion Management, LP, out of CT.

Nothing like a group of unbiased authorities, alright.

That is the guy who at the Senate hearing on hedge fund and analyst collusion, gave a 5 minute defense of how good hedge funds are for everyone and everything, ignoring the topic and the allegations of the damage done.

How does this guy keep showing up when he is not just in bed with the industry, but actually works for it?

Ask the SEC. Why not just have David Rocker and Steve Cohen show up? But anyway, I digress. Here's some of Floyd's fine work:

"But a roundtable of economists testifying before the S.E.C. last week produced an interesting idea: Make those who do not borrow pay the same, or more, than they would have had to pay if they did borrow. In other words, use the market to police the market. "

Gee. That's a great idea. Except of course that the cost to borrow will go down as more and more supply, genuine or not, hits the market, trashing the share price. I guess everyone forgot the old Econ 101 lessons about supply and demand. This proposal would be great for the bad guys - legalize their lawlessness, and then let the rigged market set the price for them to destroy companies by selling virtually limitless supplies of shares.

"That would require shining light on the market for borrowing shares, as was proposed by Owen Lamont, a finance professor at Yale who calls short sellers an "oppressed minority."

Yeah, an oppressed minority whose interests resonate with Owen because he works for Wall Street. 

"Making everyone happy is impossible. Some economists, like Lawrence E. Harris, a finance professor at the University of Southern California and a former chief economist for the S.E.C., warn that restrictions on shorting can lead to overvalued shares, damaging the economy by leading to inefficient allocation of capital and depressed future returns for those who buy at the higher prices."

Huh. And who gets to decide what is overvalued and what isn't? If a group of hedge funds makes a bad bet on a company like NFI, and then spends two years destroying its share price to salvage their bloated short position, are they correct that it might have been overvalued, or are they merely engaging in stock manipulation to save their bacon for a while? Who gets to play God with the market, and decide from Olympus, what the right value is for stocks? In an auction market, that would be the public. In a manipulated sham of an auction market, that would be whoever runs the printing presses for counterfeiting shares.

Which is why we have legal short selling, versus illegal counterfeiting of shares without limitation. One is a legal bet to the downside, the other a manipulative trading strategy that has been employed and understood for at least 100 years. That's why it was the number one target of the 1934 Securities Exchange Act and the creation of the SEC.

I love how these guys act as though the revelations of the Pecora hearings never happened. How they pretend that the Milken scams involving massive insider trading, both to the downside and to the upside, never happened. How names like Elgindy and Valentine and Badian never sullied their ears.

This is pretty simple, Floyd. Allowing Wall Street to sell however many shares they like, regardless of what the company authorized to be issued, lets them effectively counterfeit shares, creating limitless supply. That will drop the value of the stock, as well as the borrow cost. Who would bother paying a higher borrow when they can simply pay whatever the going rate is to fail and crater the price that way? Our forefathers understood this when they created a regulator which was supposed to end forever the sort of shenanigans that contributed significantly to the destruction of a nation's net worth in the Thirties, and visited global depression on the planet for a decade. But now, the bright lads want us to forget all that, and roll back the rules that cost many their livelihoods and their lives. You know, so that some hedge funds can generate yet more outsized profits at the expense of the public.

Not such a good deal for anyone but the hedge funds and short sellers.

And BTW, run some background on these geniuses before quoting them - you'll find that they all benefit from Wall Street's largess in some way or another. Thus, their unbiased and scholarly opinions are nothing more than the bought-and-paid-for propaganda of those robbing the nation of its savings. 

Copyright ©2006 Bob O'Brien
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Comments (81)
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By Little Bo peep on 9/22/2006 8:30 AM
to the bad boys and girls.

You are up against the CLOCK now.
You can lie. steal and ridicule and naked short for just a bit longer.

you are going down. make a note of it.


Choices.
We love our USA because we have the freedom of choice.
you can stand up like a man or woman and take your medicine
or we will force you to take it.

the porcupine is in the balloon factory now.

Getting the picture yet?

Now we know someone on the inside was trying to destroy us.
They stole our personal information to sell and use for themselves.
Without us even knowing they had it.

Not many pieces left on the chess board now. Checkmate soon.

Did someone say "strap on your hip waders"

as in wading through the shit dragging them out one by one?
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By mhelburn on 9/22/2006 8:54 AM
Short-selling is not necessary to regulate the market. These bozo's forget basic economics and the competition for capital. Without shorting where people legally and illegally take capitalization before putting any in would likely cause the market to go up across the board and the averqage price of stock would rise, but the competition for the capital would be just as great as ever as the market will determine which stock is undervalued and which is overvalued. Sheesh... Shorting because of the illegal form creates an unlimited sell side, distorts the overall performance of the market and creates volatility, the bread and butter of Wall Street and the enemy of the ordinary investor. Would the market double if shorts had to cover? With the current state of affairs, where there are unaccounted for shorts, it might even be more. I believe we have too many people protecting the unwary investor from scamsters... because the protectors are the ones taking the capital away from the companies and the shareholders via their unlimited ability to short.
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By bermuda on 9/22/2006 2:56 PM
A Steve Hicks was arrested in Operation Bermuda Short.
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By Selene on 9/22/2006 3:10 PM
Bob

I really wish you would keep doing more of this than some of the other commentary in the past. On point. Shows the obvious obsurdity of their positions, and most of all no "Blowback" against the AnitNSS cause.

Thank you

Selene
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By Media Heartburn on 9/22/2006 3:37 PM
Idea for journalist:

Go to the authorities to investigate the crime to bust the lawbreakers before you print the story.
If you do go to them and they do nothing.
Then blast the report everywhere.
The American public would support that.

This sounds like you have something to hide.
The sources for the story do not have
to become public. Do they?
The sources did not break any laws did they?

We are sick and tired of reading/viewing bullshit opinions in newspapers/tv that smear people before the facts are proven, with or without an agenda attached.

Is the sports full of roaches like the SEC has been?

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/15581285.htm
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By InTheKnow on 9/22/2006 3:56 PM
There are a lot of people that know about Steven Hicks!
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By InTheKnow on 9/22/2006 4:07 PM
Steven Hicks was never arrested in the Bermuda Short scandal but his partner Mark Valentine was arrested.
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By InTheKnow on 9/22/2006 4:12 PM
How many companies were toxic financed by Steven Hicks through Thompson Kernnigan. How about Cameron Shell? Mark Valentine, Steven Hicks, Cameron Shell. Who are these guys?
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By InTheKnow on 9/22/2006 4:13 PM
Follow the sell tickets...
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By Miss Quackfaster on 9/22/2006 4:30 PM
Hewlett-Packard Co. shoved Chairwoman Patricia Dunn off its board Friday, severing its ties to a leader whose efforts to plug a media leak morphed into a spying scandal that has spawned criminal and congressional investigations.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/09/22/america/NA_GEN_US_Hewlett_Packard_Directors.php
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By InTheKnow on 9/22/2006 4:36 PM
and the Senate finance committee is still playing pattycake with the SEC!
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By clearthinker on 9/22/2006 4:51 PM
I am tired of hearing how this agency or that committee is "looking into" things. It's enough looking into....either take action...or face the American people and tell them the truth...that your pathetic life as a regulator/legislator/AG is a sham, and that your upward mobility has been financed by Wall St. and now, you can't do a god damn thing to change the corrupt system that bought your $2000 suit.

Enough....appoint a special prosecuter....come to think of it, appoint 10 of them...it's going to take more than one to issue all of the indictments....

Sheesh...
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By Goofy on 9/22/2006 6:41 PM
Partners in crime
I-bankers, insider trades, moles, strippers -- this story was fit for the big screen.

By Barney Gimbel, Fortune writer-reporter


http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive
/2006/10/02/8387505/index.htm?source=yahoo_quote
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By iscore4evr on 9/22/2006 6:59 PM
Not sure if this has been posted.

This is a 1 hour interview with Patrick Byrne on a Phoenix radio program. This is an absolute must hear! In his typical style, he lets everyone know who is responsible, he names names, gives the history behind it, explains how the fraud is being perpetuated, and tells you where the documentation is that supports his accusations.

http://www.vmsdigital.com/download/091806/NDV36051_01.mp3

Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By janice on 9/22/2006 7:48 PM
Janice Shell was an Elgindy wannabe. Anyone following naked shorting would be well served to research "Anthony Pacific" AKA elgindy's stock thread.

I'm told that for the $6 billion lost in public, there are another 100 offshore hedge funds that are in trouble.

I'm told that hedge funds as a concept are in trouble as the elite aren't going to want to spend money to lose money.

WE HAVE POWER - the biggest thing you can do is get press on a local level.
Re: This works 100% of the time, but if not... By Dr. T. on 9/22/2006 8:25 PM
Dear certs: that is a well thought out response to stock-delivery failures. However, I'm not sure that the police department is the right place for step 2; I think the Department of Corporations or the State Securities Administrator (usually under the Secretary of State) would be more appropriate.
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By bobo on 9/22/2006 9:06 PM
janice. You are correct. Hence Patrick's appearance on Phoenix radio becomes the model. Local action for a national crisis. It's your money. Fight to keep it.
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By searrows on 9/23/2006 1:58 AM
This is Government Sponsored Counterfeiting...How would the SEC and Compliant Politicians like it if they were paid off in counterfeit dollars. I saw where Richard Shelby isn't getting his cut from child pornographers. I guess he has to go after somebody that is scuzzier than he is. He has worn the colors of both our political parties proudly it tells you something about that them. I suppose when he is exposed he will flee to the seminary....I am really beginning to wonder if this will ever get resolved. What is it going to take? How asleep has America become? How come I still see Herb Greenberg & Jim Cramer smiling on TV almost everyday talking about their 4th.amendment right to steal from us. Maybe our national enemies need to find out about this, or are they already feeding at the trough. What a National Tragedy. Would the administration defend this flank should the enemy support their efforts against us by stealimg from us. No. they don't have the courage.
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By Weekend Reading on 9/23/2006 2:23 AM
HEDGE FUNDS
The Matrix
Hedge fund managers cross paths in a web of overlapping networks. Here's where the elite meet.
FORTUNE
Monday, March 17, 2003
By Andy Serwer
http://tinyurl.com/zc6jw

HEDGE FUNDS
Wall Street's Secret Power Elite: Where the Money's Really Made
Hedge funds are raking in hundreds of billions while you're losing your shirt. Is this the next bubble?
FORTUNE Part 2
Monday, March 17, 2003
By Andy Serwer
http://tinyurl.com/jqk9d

HEDGE FUNDS
Wall Street's Secret Power Elite: Where the Money's Really Made
Hedge funds are raking in hundreds of billions while you're losing your shirt. Is this the next bubble?
FORTUNE
Monday, March 17, 2003
By Andy Serwer
http://tinyurl.com/ewvkm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_A._Cohen
After Wharton, Cohen got a Wall Street job as a junior trader in the options arbitrage department at Gruntal & Co. in 1978. On his first day on the job, he made an $8,000 profit, and eventually was making around $100,000 a day for the company. Cohen was running his own trading group at Gruntal by 1984, and continued running it until he started his own company, SAC
GRUNTAL
The Shabby Side of the Street
The collapse of a 122-year-old brokerage firm opens a window on Wall Street's unseemly ways.
http://tinyurl.com/puugz
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By Weekend Reading on 9/23/2006 2:51 AM
Don't miss this one

2/24/02
WALL STREET TREACHERY
Part One: Leading The Lambs To The Slaughter
By David Podvin
http://tinyurl.com/pw4us
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By Ranger on 9/23/2006 6:03 AM
As this continues to play out the more it becomes clear. The folks in charge of the rules are intent on allowing stocks to become undervalued or depressed at any cost. They are not however interested in seeing any stocks anywhere getting overvalued. It would be follish to try and buy into any stocks that are going up in value. I have seen it over and over again. Look at the small cap universe of stocks. Almost every one of them is down 50% from 2005. This is because it has become easy and predictable to take money from stocks that can be controlled by large pools of money. The fairness of the markets has been eliminated and preference to the downside has been built into the rules. This is jus they way it is and I see no evidence from the folks in charge that they intend to change this. Mutual funds that invest the majority of the working class's money is hampered by only being able to buy stock and pay fee's. The ulta rich hedge funds have the ability to systimaticcaly take the working class retirement funds from the mutual funds and the rules were written and are being enforced to allow it. Why fight the trend when it is so obvious this is going to continue. People put money in the markets as an investment it try and increase thier wealth and secure thier retirement. The hedge funds and a few traders are in the markets to take retirement money from those that worked for it. I gave up a few months ago trying to invest in the markets. I know follow the pack of hedge funds around and short stocks with them as they steal everybody's money. Until the rules are changes to make the playing field level the only way to increase your wealth in the markets is to follow the hedge funds around and make the same bet. They can and do take 50% or more off the share price of a stock at will. Fundamentals, research, logic, and earnings do not matter. It is all about who every has the most money and how fast can they destroy a stock to make money period. BIG MONEY IS IN COMPLETE CONTROL of the direction of any stock period. Why fight them buy buying and holding stock you will only lose if they decide to destroy the stock period.
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By Granny on 9/23/2006 6:16 AM
Amen!
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By trapdoor on 9/23/2006 6:21 AM
300 million of us would kick the asses of the 10,000 scumbags that are stealing from us.

The SEC, DTCC and Shelby's of the world have the ILLUSION of power, but it is only an illusion.

They are the men behind the curtain in the Wizard of Oz.

We have always had the power and if we choose to exercise it, they will be quivering over the trap door.
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By gregcable2002 on 9/23/2006 6:28 AM
I'm sure everyone knows about thie already,just a reminder.

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ARE INVESTORS PAYING FOR STOCKS THEY DON’T RECEIVE?
Attend An Eye-Opening Event In Los Angeles on October 19, 2006: NAKED, SHORT AND GREEDY: Is Wall Street Abusing Short Sales?

Los Angeles, CA

What damage is done to investors when the system routinely
tolerates stock-delivery failures? Should more be done to stop short-selling abuses?

Two class action lawsuits were filed in April 2006 in Manhattan federal court, byan electronic trading exchange and by a hedge fund, against eleven large primebrokers. The plaintiffs allege the defendants conspired since 2000 to transactshort sales without delivering shares to buyers. If true, American investors who
paid for tens of millions of corporate shares actually hold nothing but electronic entries.

In 2004, after years of complaints that naked short sales, i.e., short sales that fail to deliver the shares sold, were systematically attacking and destroying share prices, the Securities & Exchange Commission (SEC) adopted Regulation SHO. But Regulation SHO did not enforce strict requirements to deliver shares in a timely manner. It allowed existing failures to remain undelivered, tacitly permitting lax treatment of stock-delivery failures by brokerages, stock exchanges and
clearing organizations.

Important Questions Will be Discussed
Has the SECs lax enforcement of clearing and settlement procedures created systemic risk in the United States capital markets? Does the failure to provide final delivery for stock trades undercut the rigor of investment analysis and victimize portfolio management? Are billions of dollars in investment value being drained from ordinary investors in the stock market? Does the solution lie in requiring daily reporting on stock-delivery failures and tighter stock borrow requirements? Are pension funds and individual investors already
exposed to enormous losses? These questions and related issues will be discussed by three highly qualified speakers
at this enlightening event.

The Panelists
Dr. Patrick Byrne, CEO of NASDAQ-traded Overstock.com, will discuss the effects on a company of high volume trading in shares apparently exceeding the number issued and outstanding, and the unwillingness of Depository Trust & Clearing Corporation to disclose data on stock-delivery failures.

Arne Alsin, portfolio manager and financial writer, will share his insights, reflecting upon how naked short sales generate phantom shares, and how this changes the risks and valuations portfolio managers and analysts must consider.

Dr. Susanne Trimbath, a research economist with operations management experience in financial services, will explain how abusive trading practices can exploit loopholes in
the stock settlement system, allowing buyers funds to be cleared for transfer to sellers without actual delivery of shares.
The Panel will be moderated by Wayne Jett, Managing Principal and Chief Economist, Classical Capital LLC, a registered investment advisory firm.

The Specifics
This important event will take place on Thursday, October 19, 2006 from 7:30 a.m. to 11:00 a.m., at the elegant Park Hyatt Los Angeles located at 2151 Avenue of the Stars in the Century City area of Los Angeles, California. Registration for the event
will be $45 in advance (register before October 18), $60 at the door. For further information (and secure online registration) go to: www.STPAdvisors.com/events.html

About the host: STP Advisory Services, LLC, is based in Santa Monica, CA. STP advises clients on capital markets, real estate and the economy.

Press Contact: Irina Somerton
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-----------------
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By Sean on 9/23/2006 4:39 PM
Do you guys
really believe thant Amaranth lost 6billion $ in Natural Gas moves. I don't. Maybe the were forced to cover a Naked Short e.g. CSHD...Maybe!! Any thought on this little nugget??
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By clearthinker on 9/23/2006 8:11 PM
ummmmmmm...don't they use stops?
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By bobo on 9/23/2006 8:21 PM
So the story starteth to stink? Shades of Refco.

I'd write the book, but nobody would believe it. Too contrived.
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By clearthinker on 9/23/2006 11:14 PM
natural gas losses....maybe a bad burrito?
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By InTheKnow on 9/24/2006 6:34 AM
Why are the privileged few allowed to sell counterfeit shares? Why not allow everyone to sell naked shares. Imagine selling naked Warrent Buffets shares on a daily basis. Hey I need a new house... sell 10 shares. Hey I need a new Ferrari or new Bentliy... sell 3 or 4 shares. Everyone should be allowed to do this not only the hedge funds and foreign msanthropes.

The SEC and Lamont and those 5 other SEC board stacked lackeys seem to think its's OK and if it's good enough for them it's good enough for me! HERE'S MY IOU!

Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By davidn on 9/24/2006 7:20 AM
This is a great point. If you run a clearing house or own a brokerage, you can take people's money and give them nothing in return.

If you are an ordinary schmuck, you aren't allowed to borrow or if you are, you have to put up a lot of collateral and face unexpected buy ins, even when you are right, but the timing is wrong.

Why are there two sets of rules for two groups of participants?
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By wisecracker on 9/24/2006 8:35 AM
site is a remote machine that makes requests to your server, and is based on the remote machines IP address/hostname

URL is the request made to a web server needs to request something.

Hits represent the total number of request made to the server during a given time period.

Files represent the total number of hits that actually resulted in something being sent back to the user. Not all hits will send data.

If a page contains links to 20 graphic images, then each request for the page will produce 20 more hits with the referrer specified as the URL of the page.

The point being that you cannot measure performance of a site by just looking at hits because the same people could be coming back many times a day.
All of the information needs to be viewed to get accurate info about performance.

Put car in gear before stepping on the gas peddle.

Now when I see poll numbers.

I feel as confident as I do looking for my
tear drop in the ocean.
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By davidn on 9/24/2006 9:28 AM
wisecracker, what's your point?

A hit is an HTTP request. If a page is made of many graphic files, etc., those various files each count as a hit. Links do not create hits.

A good measure of a site's success is unique visitors, such as the 1,100 unique people took the time to sign the petition.

It is always a small number of people that cause the avalanche of change as most people are sheeple.

Look what one person (Bob, Mary, Dave, Bud, etc.) can do. They know this time is different.
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By InTheKnow on 9/24/2006 9:47 AM
If 1100 people signed the petition I would think that there are 10's of thousands of people looking at this site.
Imagine how many people are already talking about this issue and how many votes will be affected this coming November. People already know who the enemy is!
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By bobo on 9/24/2006 9:56 AM
The funny thing is that this site has never had more daily individual visitors, and yet the Alexa rating has plummeted. That is odd, to say the least, in that it raises the question - was it accurate when it rated us in the 36-39K range, with fewer daily visitors, or is it accuate now, with more daily visitors, more hit count for pages, etc.?

Could be that we've seen the users of the web quadruple in the last 6 months, putting us back to the 170K range. That isn't likely. Also could be that removing some of the tracking info caused a drop. Also possible is that there is some way to game the numbers. Dunno. Don't care. I can say that we have been getting thousands of unique visitors per day, and that the site's popularity is growing, with an average of 32% new visitors every day.

Very odd, the Alexa thing, in light of that.
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By wisecracker on 9/24/2006 11:30 AM
davidn:

Point is that Polls are not always accurate.

I did not say links on pages are hits.

I said, If a page contains links to 20 graphic images, then each request for the page will produce 20 more hits with the referrer specified as the URL of the page.

We will just leave it at that.

Had nothing to do with this site.
From: Business Law Prof Blog BY: Dale Oesterle Professor of Law By newspaper on 9/24/2006 1:23 PM
Naked Shorting and the SEC
The SEC is worried about the increase in naked shorting (SEC rules do not seem to have reduced the practice to the levels the SEC prefers) and is now listening to panels of economists on what to do about it. Naking shorting occurs when a person sells stock that she does not own and has not borrowed, intending to either cover and deliver (buy the stock before the three day settlement period expires) or to default on delivery. A trader covers if the stock price falls in the three day period and defaults if the stock price rises (in an amount that exceeds the penalties for a default). Managers hate the practice; they believe it puts unfair downward pressure on their stock price and that the practice is, to some extent, self-contained. Naked shorting itself will depress price, allowing those who do it to cover at the lower price making money on the trading practice itself and not on outside market factors. The SEC does not like; the agency has declared it illegal in most contexts (there are some exceptions for market makers.) But some traders do it anyway.

http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/business_law/2006/09/naked_shorting_.html
Stunning Display Of H Greenbergs Ignorance By Newspaper on 9/24/2006 1:59 PM
So I started reading some Herb Greenberg blogs. And there is this one exchange between him and patch.

It goes something like this:

Herb: “NFI stinky poo poo OSTK is as well.
Bad company’s bad management. They deserve to be sold short because they are both overpriced.”

Patch: “Herb what do you think about the fact that OSTK has over 2mil fails and it has been on SHO for over 300 days now?” Moreover the fails are growing and the stock price is decreasing while it is on SHO?”

Herb: “Patch HUH say what? SHO what’s that? I don’t care about fails or SHO they don’t interest me at all. Why are you talking about SHO? They are as pertinent to an ostk, nfi conversation as darth vader and obi-wan are. Don’t bring up mythical things that have nothing to do with stocks; especially things like hobbits jedi and fails under SHO.
Overstock and NFI are poo poo don’t buy them they are overpriced”

The audacity of this person (herb) to say that he does not care about increasing fails or the inability of the SEC to remove these stocks from the Sho list after years of being there illegally.

I have never seen such a blatant display of fake ignorance and spinning. How could REG-SHO not interest someone who is in the industry and is supposed to report the facts honestly and unbiasedly?

HERB “Hmm I wonder why the ground is wet?”

Sane ordinary smart honest people like us say - Hey, its raining of course the ground is wet.

Herb
“Rain!!! That does not interest me there must be another reason the ground it wet. I think its divine retribution from someone or maybe aliens.”

http://blogs.marketwatch.com/greenberg/2006/06/collusion_101.html

http://blogs.marketwatch.com/greenberg/2006/09/update_open_tex.html
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By bobo on 9/24/2006 2:36 PM
Herb writes his own material?
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By newspaper on 9/24/2006 3:56 PM
No media NO MEDIA will ever touch SHO. They talk about the companies on it. They try to explain away the decreasing share prices by anything except SHO.

They will use negative innuendo and slant facts by negative connotation. There is no semblance of neutrality. 100% of all the companies that are on SHO are unfairly treated this way. And the media will never ever EVER mention that the company is on SHO. The fact that the company just lost 80% of its market cap on SHO is explained away by ANYTHING other than SHO and naked shorting!

It would seem The mainstream media does not use occam's razor, looks like they use a crooked razor.

Why does the media pretend that REG-SHO does not exist. How can investigative journalists not want to look into or talk about this? We have journalists who have worked in the financial sector all of their lives and they don’t seem to think that companies that stay on SHO post T+13 Post T+200 Is not a problem whatsoever.

We all know this happens, but every time I see it happen I feel betrayed insulted and angry.

How did it come to this?
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By searrows on 9/24/2006 5:18 PM
I keep thinking there is something more we can do. Maybe we could make a difference by writing our local newspapers and explaining naked shorting in our own words After all the NY media doesen't own all the news sources and most of the people this is affecting don't pay any attention to the New York Media anyway. By doing this we may force the NY media to come out swinging, this is when they will lose. They at some level know that continued debate concerning this issue will cause it to be on the radar screen instead of beneath it.
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By kevin on 9/24/2006 5:26 PM
I won't take this too far off topic, but there are lots of things the mainstream media won't talk about that there is a lot of evidence for. Example: touch screen voting that can be used to fix elections, western government sponsored coups, 911 conspiracy theories (the ones backed by Ph.D's, the private Federal Reserve, etc.)

The assumption has to be that the largest media chains and the direct regulators (senate banking commission, SEC) are part of the criminal group and will NEVER help us.

That means we need to go to the local, foreign media and we need to use guerilla techniques to get our message out. It means that we need to call for the SEC, DTCC and Senate Banking Committee to be disbanded and the whole thing investigated by the department of justice.
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By davidn on 9/24/2006 5:43 PM
The elevator pitch I use when explaining share counterfeiting to friends and relatives:

"The stock market doesn't actually trade shares. For efficiency sake, what trades are claims on shares which are held by trusted third parties including the DTCC, various foreign depositories, clearing brokerages and your own introducing brokerage.

Unfortunately, some of these third parties have allowed counterfeit claims to trade along side claims backed up by real shares as there is NO regulatory oversight of the clearing industry and they are extremely powerful politically. An unimaginably large amount of money, trillions of dollars, has been stolen by people who have taken advantage of this vacuum in regulation. This pot of money has coopted regulators, politicians and the mainstream media.

The trillions the counterfeiters are making has likely come from your wallet. Even if you don't invest in the stock market, you are likely a victim. The company you work for or their customers could be starved for cash, directly impacting your pay check. Your retirement savings and mutual funds could also be affected. This is one of the reasons we all have two wage earners per household and still need to use the cash advance on the credit card to buy groceries."

This pitch can definitely be improved upon - I think we should all take stabs at cleaning it up to get it right.

What have other people found successful in getting friends and relatives to GET IT before their eyes glaze over?

The pitch should survive the second iteration. We need a pitch that is compelling enough that our friends can explain it to their friends and so on.
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By A local paper works for me on 9/24/2006 6:30 PM
searrows,
I started over a year ago writing to our local daily.The day before my first article was published, the business editor had an editorial depicting me as a very confused crazy woman (he did not use my name). He did however go beyond my sources for information and read press releases from SEC & DTCC. He swallowed it hook line and sinker. Now I am a very old lady and it hurt to take that blast. A friend advised me to educate him and I did. It took about 6 months and lots of postage. When he changed my title on one of my articles, I knew I had won. Not all my writings are accepted, but half are making it. The latest was about the NCANSS comments along with 1100 signatures and contained about 450 words. Most of the time I try to keep them shorter and I keep giving them new information. The editor will now let me use a web address only one time per letter. the sanitycheck.com of course. I have had 0 luck with larger papers. Thanks sanity check, you are loaded with ideas for writing.
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By gregcable2002 on 9/24/2006 6:41 PM
I just take people to the sho list and explain why these companies are on it.Easy explanation,some people on wall street have found a loophole in our laws that allow them to sell more shares than the companies have issued which causes a collapse in share price so when the pps crashes they buy the real shares and deliver them to our accounts pocketing the difference,only sometimes these companies go bankrupt,which they hope happens,then they never have to buy the real shares and they get to keep all our money,free and clear.Then the crooks take some of that money they've made and donate it to washington and certain journalist and after that money is taken the crooks are able to tell these entities what to do and say.How is it so far? The sho list is a good start when showing people whats going on,it gives what this is all about legitimacy.
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By davidn on 9/24/2006 7:00 PM
A local paper... ,

I commend your perseverance. You are a perfect example of the change a single person can accomplish and you are one more of the many honest people working behind the scenes for change.

I'd like to see letters to the editor and local paper stories linked here somewhere. It helps reassure us that the snowflakes are still falling and the avalanche of change is coming.

I have found the same thing with the first rejection. As long as you have the self confidence and thick skin to be labeled tin hat first time around, the little papers will come around.

I'm sure Bobo can attest, there is a certain satisfaction to being able to refer to tin hat articles he wrote from a year ago that are now confirmed as 100% factual today.

I don't even bother with the letter to the editor. Just pretend to be interested in advertising and you can usually talk to the editor face to face!

In my community, local papers are read as frequently as the big ones as they are free. They are usually not controlled by chains and a good place to start.

The scumbags have no control at the local level and it is a good place to focus your efforts.

I also write "Stop Counterfeiting: http://www.thesanitycheck.com" on all the money in my wallet - I wouldn't encourage anyone else to do it as writing on currency is wrong, but it makes me feel good. It occurred to me that a lot of people see that message over a very wide area over many years before the bill is finally destroyed.

I even took advice from this blog and had a stamp made.
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By davidn on 9/24/2006 7:07 PM
Gregcable, the most common trait to the companies on SHO is that they still need to raise money. Even big ones like NFI and OSTK still issue shares.

As long as that is true, just counterfeit the shit out of the stock, then use the cash to do a placement at the new lower level to cover. It works 98% of the time.

That's why every company on the OTC should be on SHO and why they lie in their short disclosures.

The SEC takes the position that the OTC isn't an exchange and isn't eligible for SHO. Unless an OTC company is also listed on a reputable exchange, it will never make SHO.

The other common trait is larger companies that have a low float and options. When that is the case, you can countefeit to manipulate the share price and make a fortune on the option trade. The SEC loves this kind of manipulation as it brings massive liquidity as longs buy shares at a ridiculously low price.

We only know about the tip of the iceberg - this problem is big.

No one has commented on the observation that the DTCC disclosed in their annual report that government bonds regularly fail to be delivered.

What does that mean when someone buys the safest of safe investments at a low interest rate matching that degree of safety and in exchange gets an IOU from a den of thieves?

Can anyone say "house of cards" or "dominoes"?
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By Catfish on 9/24/2006 7:15 PM
davidn, I don't think promoting thesanitycheck on money would be considered 'wrong' as you are not intending to make the money unusable. Anyone seen the "Where's George?" stamp on money? Kinda fun to see where that bill has passed. The law regarding such is:

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/18/parts/i/chapters/17/sections/section_333.html

And the rubber stamps was a good idea, wasn't it! Gonna have to get one myself.
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By Catfish on 9/24/2006 7:29 PM
Link got truncated. Try this:

http://tinyurl.com/zcdas
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By Wicked World on 9/24/2006 9:52 PM


davidn,

I learn a lot from your posts and appreciate your line of thought. Been meaning to ask you, while the battlefronts of exposing and explaining this fraud are well defined, what about an arena to afford companies, shareholders, and other interested market participants share ownership visibility. There's .com sites like "locateStock" & "BuyIns" for WallSt. insiders that are arenas for complying with locate rules foremost and getting a feel (via borrow costs) for demand.

Do I have any idea how it would work? Not really. But here's the point. Apparently it's against the law (and apparently the SEC will act quickly, lol the irony) if a CEO makes an effort to suggest shareholders take action of any kind with regard to their certificates. With so many shares in street name it would help for additional battlefronts to open up.

Maybe someone could to well with a .com like "ShowYourStake", "CertPull", "SHOtime", ProveMyPosition". Whatever. Something to give concerned CEOs and shareholders more visibilty (albeit informal).

Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By Wicked World on 9/24/2006 10:16 PM


Bobo,

Not trying to add to your workload but smoke this over.

Podcast.

Only a minority have the time to absorb the content of this site/movement. I've asked friends with investments (basic Joe America stocks & funds via work, etc.) to check this site and tell me what they think. They all fail the test. There's so much to know and so many places to start and the action moves so fast that it's difficult for this kind of person to tune in.

Earbudded masses await.

Even though I never miss a single printed word of yours it would be bitchin' cool to hear a weekly podcast of you hitting the highlites or recapping the week.

Lots of people no longer want to see or read news, they want to hear it while doing other things IMO. They'll also readily file-swap audio blogs they like. Sometimes they'll jack in to places they shouldn't for public broadcast. You just never know!



Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By davidn on 9/24/2006 10:46 PM
Wicked:

I think the right answer would be to get a crack team of lawyers signed up.

Each time a shareholder was stalled on a cert. request, they would spring into action! In the mean time, a simple small claim action costs $100 and takes all of about 15 minutes to fill out. It is incredibly embarrassing to brokerages that want investors to trust them.

The last thing Wallstreet needs is the equivalent of a run on the bank; for ordinary investors to decide they'd rather hold their life savings personally than entrust it to the anonymous Cede & Co, a company so obscure, no one including the media contact at the DTCC knows the jurisdiction, its owners or whether it has pledged our assets as collateral, but which is the actual registered owner of $30 trillion in stock. A company so obscure, it doesn't show up in their annual report and that a senator in the early 70's was unable to identify the owners of.

And as the actual registered owner has the right to vote those shares against your voting instructions.

$30 trillion is about $100,000 per American. And we don't know who they are...I guess that's why we're poorer than we were in the 50's and the government in our great nation reports to them - aye aye sir!!!

Another website could be helpful, but I am a believer in the parallel approach - for 10's of thousands of readers to post this site link on their currency and for millions of shareholders to pull their certificates. Rather than turn to our leaders to tell us we are conspiracy theorists, we need to take this to the streets.

There are more of us than them, it's our money and they have to do what we say with our investment dollars!!!!!!

By the way, tomorrow is Monday. I'm not trading tomorrow as I am on strike. I've chosen to take one day a week where I don't play their casino. If enough of us did that, it would starve them of 20% of their "volatility" and commissions.
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By davidn on 9/24/2006 10:57 PM
Given Wicked's post, it turns out we are free to order up stamps, "Stop Counterfeiting: http://www.thesanitycheck.com" to ink up our currency in our wallets and we aren't breaking any laws as long as the currency remains spendable.

You can find George after you stamp him

http://www.wheresgeorge.com/

Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By gregcable2002 on 9/25/2006 4:15 AM
How about everyone close thier online brokerage accounts and demand thier stock be delivered in cert form immediatly.When it can't be delivered in a timely manner notify your states security regulators.This would cause a stir.
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By bbhindyou on 9/25/2006 5:12 AM
greg I'm doing that now.Certs are ordered lets see if I get excuses or delivery.
It really ticks me of to have to pay to get my certs,like paying the bank to give you back your money.Well the check is in the mail and soon, I hope , I am out of the electronic loop of share borrowing.These are MINE and you can't borrow them if I hold them.Anybody else in ? Drop by drop the dtcc MUST be drained.
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By swamp on 9/25/2006 5:47 AM
It's like draining a swamp. It is empowering to pull certs.
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By bbhindyou on 9/25/2006 7:01 AM
Ha Ha just hit another account took time on the phone and fifty bucks from a cash account [which by the way after this I am closing strange fees seem to be applicable to it if I l 'lower' my status by pulling my certs] but boy did that feel GOOD !!!
DRIP, DRIP ,DRIP,
TILL YOU DROP
TAKE THAT DTCC!!!!!!
Re: NY Times Article Stunning Display Of Economic Ignorance By bobo on 9/25/2006 7:03 AM
The podcast is a great idea. I