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UT Gov Feeling WS Heat; Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue...

Location: Blogs Bob O'Brien's Sanity Check Blog    
Posted by:   bobo 5/25/2006 11:28 AM

Exactly zero coverage on the UT bill now before the governor for signature.

None. Not one major paper has picked it up, except for the local paper in SLC.

Isn't that odd? A bill that is the single most important step in the history of the naked short selling controversy, and which provides the only effective reporting requirements I've seen, has been passed by the legislature, and is before the governor of the state for signature.

See this article about the enormous pressure he is receiving from Wall Street, and the difficult choice he is facing - do his job and ratify the express wishes of the legislature and the people of his state, or sell out to special interests lobbying for maintaining secrecy for an illegal stock manipulation practice.

My guess is, he’ll do the right thing.  They have so far.

 Utah is not the kind of place where a bunch of New York bully boys can have their way with the state. The state is known for its pioneering spirit, and for a certain refreshing sense of fairness. And it is not fair to keep investors and companies and regulators in the dark as to who is abusing the law.

That's why I believe that this is a done deal.

What would you do? Sell out your population, public corporations and your lawmakers, and buckle to Wall Street? Effectively allow them to continue to harm the companies that do business in your state - companies like OSTK, SkyWest,  and Delta?  I mean, here’s a state that prides itself on and educated work force and incubation of new high-tech, strong growth companies that are often targeted for a pounding by illegal short selling.   The legislature’s vote is telling—they’re saying, “No more!”

Why would Wall Street be so against any sort of reasonable transparency that they would essentially try to extort the governor of the state into violating his mandate? Doesn't that seem awfully extreme for a little "sunshine" bill?

What does that tell you about the size of the threat that reasonable disclosure on fail to delivers poses to the industry? Think about it. This is a bill that simply requires the brokers to notify interested parties as to who is failing to deliver stock that investors paid for.

Watch this one closely, and I would propose sending him words of encouragement and support. The legislature did their job, with an almost unanimous vote for the bill (1 "no" vote). The governor needs to know he is admired and supported in this.  Tell him you’ll vacation in Utah this year.  Indeed, as their license plates proclaim, Utah is a “Pretty, Great State.”

Anyone have the Gov’s email address?

---------

I read this with a certain awe that someone else gets it.

Check out this article.

In it is described the manipulations by unscrupulous short sellers who use class action suits they initiate and SEC investigations they lobby for to earn profits on their undisclosed short positions.

Sound familiar?

Email the author if you enjoyed his work, and you might want to propose that he make this a regular topic. Send him here if you think this site could prove interesting.

I differ in opinion in terms of the simple questionnaire from the SEC approach as a solution - it would be too easy to simply structure an arm's length lobbyist or hedge fund who didn't have a position, but was lobbying for the investigation for his undisclosed friends.

Still, the proposed solution is better than the complete absence of any solution, which is what we now have.

Bravo.

-------------------

The OSTK message boards have been a-titter about the posts by IPefreely, which purport to offer evidence that a board basher who has posted over 2000 negative posts on that board, is actually 'lil GW.

I've gotten sucked into it, as it is fascinating theater. The offending poster abruptly disappeared and hasn't been heard from all day, but another poster with a clear agenda appeared instantly, and began accusing me, and the IP character, of attempting to extort or stalk or threaten Lambo or 'lilGW. It is unclear which, as he uses the two interchangeably.

For the record, I don't want anything other than the IP poster to post all his evidence, so I have something to blog about for the next few days. If it is compelling, I say let's see it. No extortion or stalking.

Show us what you got.

Let Lambo refute it, if he can. If not, let's next ask Gary to refute it, if he can. If not, I'd say we have a winner.

Does that seem reasonable?

No demands. No requests. No do this or else. No stalking.

Give us the truth, and let us evaluate it.

Sound fair?

 

Copyright ©2006 Bob O'Brien
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Comments (37)
Re: UT Governor Facing Extortion Over FTD Bill; Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By Paladin on 5/25/2006 2:54 PM
From Robelita's comment on your previous blog:

"Send the Governor your thoughts:

http://governor.utah.gov/goca/form_comment.html

After that mail a copy of the bill to your local legislators, the state AG and the Govenor's office."
Re: UT Governor Facing Extortion Over FTD Bill; Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By Wonder Boy on 5/25/2006 2:55 PM
And the Senate passes an Immigration Bill that states that we will consult with Mexico before constructing any boarder fence although 80% of the public is for the fence. The SEC refuses to pass any rules to correct a situation that is all too clear to anyone with brain activity. Now WS is twisting the Governor of Utah in knots? What is going on?
The Howls of Protest By rick on 5/26/2006 3:37 AM
are music to my ears. When the 1st of many $10 million dollar fines hit these Shady Dealers, it will be opera.
*** What Happens When You Don't Pay Discover Card *** By InTheKnow on 5/26/2006 4:24 AM
Where the hell do thses scumbags get off with their BS. . This moron wants a free ride for naked shorters and give you nothing but an IOU in your account. Try sending an IOU to Discover Card they charge you late fees and they raise you card rate!

"Tony Taggert, an officer for Morgan Stanley - which operates an industrial bank in Utah and employs almost 5,000 with Discover Card operations here - promised a lawsuit on behalf of the Securities Industry Association if Huntsman signs the measure. The governor's office was unaware of the growing controversy'

"CAN YOU IMAGINE IF EVERYONE SENT IOU'S TO DISCOVER CARD"
They Have a Lot of Balls By rick on 5/26/2006 5:46 AM
TD-Ameritrade sent me some extra shares by mistake when I requested certs. Called me to say they'll buy me in if I don't send them back. I don't intend to keep what is not mine, but does anyone have a great idea where we can have fun with this?
Re: UT Gov Feeling WS Heat; Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By rtway1 on 5/26/2006 5:51 AM
Dear In The Know, how about everybody send a letter dropping their accounts Morgan Stanley and Discover Card unless this moron shuts up.
Hey now! By rick on 5/26/2006 6:51 AM
Dirty Dealer fine (million$)

Goldman Sachs 37
Citigroup 21
City Securities 18
Morgan Stanley 13
Barclay Capital 9
Fidelity (NFS LLC) 9
Lazard Capital 7
Charles Schwab 6
Merill Lynch 6
UBS Securites 5

based on outstanding, and I do mean outstanding, naked-short positions from Patrick Byrne's JP Morgan's Global Internet Conference (March 14, 2006; slide 24)

assumes $22 OSTK share price. Actual fines will likely be higher as larceny was committed at higher levels (from $79 on down).
Oh, and what about NFI positions, and other NSS. This could get ugly.
Re: UT Gov Feeling WS Heat; Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By bobo on 5/26/2006 7:10 AM
No wonder Morgan is fighting the bill tooth and nail.

I also heard that the Securities Industry Association stated that they would back the bill in exchange for an amendment, which was given them - and once the bill was passed, they pulled their support. So they lied.

We are dealing with liars and thieves, folks. There is no honor, and their only deity is the dollar - and we are sheep to be fleeced.
Re: UT Gov Feeling WS Heat; Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By How would this bill work? on 5/26/2006 8:13 AM
Can anyone figure out the practical ramifications of this bill? Does a company have to be based in Utah in order to take advantage of it? Isn't OSTK based in Maryland?

And what about individual shareholders? Could they sue the brokerages if they're Utah residents and victims of FTD's?

I'm having trouble grasping the real-world implications of this bill.
Re: UT Gov Feeling WS Heat; Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By robelita on 5/26/2006 8:16 AM
bush-lay,

Correctumundo! We must CLEAR OUT the House and Senate and replace them with Independents who are beholden to no one except their constituencies which as it should be. The two-party system in this country is morally bankrupt and it's time Americans wised up to this fact. This requires a different mindset from voters however. We DON"T have to vote Democrat or Republican-there ARE other choices-more responsible and less likely to be swayed by special interests. Remember this as you enter your polling booths this November.
Re: UT Gov Feeling WS Heat; Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By InTheKnow on 5/26/2006 8:18 AM
STOCKGATE TODAY
An online newspaper reporting the issues of Securities Fraud

Utah Legislature Exposes Wall Street Double Standards – May 26, 2006
David Patch

Everybody that reads these columns must own a credit card; have a mortgage payment, or a car payment. Everybody owes a bank something at some point in life.

Now for all those who fall into this category how many have had the experience of missing a payment on that loan? We all have at one time or another.

Earlier this week the Utah state legislature passed a bill that essentially treats the late delivery of a stock security into the same category as the consumer making a late payment on a lending account. The Utah legislature assigned penalties and interests for being late with the delivery and settlement of a stock transaction.

The result of such reaction was a clear and decisive uproar.

According to the Associated Press, Howard Headlee, president of the Utah Bankers Association threatened that brokerages were considering taking their business out of Utah. The AP also quoted Tony Taggert, an officer for Morgan Stanley - which operates an industrial bank in Utah and employs almost 5,000 with Discover Card operations here - that if the governor of Utah signed the bill a lawsuit would be filed on behalf of the Securities Industry Association.

So what’s all the uproar about? Securities trading and stock settlement!

The Utah legislature passed a bill that introduced fines of $10,000/day or the total value of a trade whichever is lower, as well as assess a 12% interest penalty, on trades that fail to settle within 5 days after the normal settlement period. Trades that a were purchased and paid for in full but trades where the seller failed to meet the standard 3-day settlement period on delivery plus an additional 5 days of allowable delays thereafter.

The reason for this bill is based on a growing concern that Wall Street is creating excessive unregistered securities in the name of the business issuers in order to appease wealthy clients that want to sell the security short where shares are not presently available to borrow and settle as required. The sales result in what the industry calls a “fail to deliver” and when the fails exceed certain thresholds the SEC has claimed the added leverage of dilution can be used to manipulate the value of a security.

Typically this issue of a fail would be handled between the buy-side and sell-side brokerage firms representing their clients where the buy-side would force the sell-side to make good on delivery. Unfortunately, with the growth of the hedge fund industry and the political lobbying of the federal reserve, Wall Street has allowed these funds to create “market liquidity” by selling what otherwise does not exist. Since every major brokerage firm and prime brokerage is involved, the markets have become a place of forgiveness to the seller and a detriment to the buy-side investor.

The Utah bill allows the investor to fight back and regain what they purchased or impose a fee on the firm in the same manner a late fee is imposed on the consumer when a late payment is made.

Again according to the AP, “brokers and the clearinghouse managed by the Depository Trust and Clearing Corp. say stock IOUs are essential to maintain market trading. They dispute that unsettled trades - called "failures-to-deliver" - are more than a tiny aberration in the market, or that all of them are short sales.” What I don’t understand is that an IOU requires both parties to agree to the terms of an IOU and in this case the buyer is hidden from the fact an IOU has replaced delivery.


To put this stock trading principle into a layman’s analogy consider this:

Lets say you purchase merchandise using your Discover card. I will appease Mr. Taggert here.

At the end of the month a bill arrives stating you owe $500.00. If you pay it in full there will be no interest on the charges applied. The reason there is no interest is because Discover took a percentage of this $500 off the merchant who accepted your card as guaranteed payment.

When the Discover bill arrives it indicates that a payment is due on June 1. But as June 1st approaches you find you do not have the cash to pay off the bill. Instead June 1st comes and goes with no payment made.

Discover, and Mr. Taggert’s Office, will begin to impose their penalties on you starting June 2. Those penalties will include interest accrual on the $500.00, a late-payment assessment of $25 - $35.00, and the potential that the 12% interest you had on the card was now bumped to $19% because you are no longer a consumer with a good rating.

That is how Discover operates. It works for them. The late fee is an instant 5% - 7% bonus to the company revenues and the 1% monthly interest accrual is higher than the banks rate to borrow. Profits everywhere.

What Mr. Taggert requires when it comes to securities transactions is for the brokerage firm to effectively miss the June 1st delivery date, also miss a June 8th delivery date, and see no penalties imposed on the firm. The reason they missed the date, it was not economically advantageous to make good on payment at that time.

So, back to our late credit card payment.

How do you think Mr. Taggert would respond if you called him up and stated that you missed your June 1st payment and probably would not make good on any payments for a couple more months. In the mean time, you wanted Discover to extend this as an IOU with no penalties or fees? You did not want any accrual of interest, no accrual of late charges, and if at all possible a lower interest rate not a higher one.

I will guarantee you Mr. Taggert would give you a courteous “your nuts pay the bill or suffer the consequences.”

Wall Street is threatening the state of Utah because they state has stood firm and called the firms nuts. Wall Street wants the buyer to pay a commission for services and yet receive nothing and the state of Utah said no on behalf of the people.

Wall Street wants the consumer to pay up front and have no legal recourse to seek the interests off their monies while waiting for the merchandise to be delivered once extended beyond the due date. Wall Street is threatening because this law would restrict the illegal ill-gotten gains they have reaped over these past decades. Revenues that line the pockets of the upper and middle level executives that benefit from the higher revenues generated by the business and the departments.

As for those IOU’s that are essential to the market trading? Congress actually thinks otherwise.

Congress mandated that all trades settle promptly for the safety and protection of the investing public. They did so under Section 17A of the Exchange Act of 1934. The phrase “promptly” was later identified into law as being 3 business days and was done so at a time when the 3-days allowed for paper handlers to shuttle the paper certificates back and forth between firms.

Today we use supercomputers to move shares and the 3-day allotment by law has more margin than a yardstick has when used to measure the thickness of hair.

The double standards of Wall Street and the banks are unmistakable. Wall Street is threatening to take their business out of the state of Utah merely because the state of Utah stepped up to the table and decided it was time to finally protect the businesses and the people who have been for decades cheated by the system.

I think I will send a message to Mr. Taggert – I am going to rid myself of the Discover Card I hold and ask that they forgive my payments until the time suits me to pay off the debt. Let him sue me. I will simply ask the judge to consider Mr. Taggert’s comments regarding the state of Utah bill. Anybody else want to join me? Maybe we can all send the cut up cards directly to Mr. Taggert with a friendly note.


For more on this issue please visit the Host site at www.investigatethesec.com .
Copyright 2006
Re: UT Gov Feeling WS Heat; Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By hawlw3 on 5/26/2006 9:04 AM
I just sent the UTAH GOV. an e-mail.
Re: UT Gov Feeling WS Heat; Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By bryedge on 5/26/2006 12:15 PM
BobO,
I think every company on the SHO Bullshit List should be contacted and told what state is prepared to possibly save their company. Can you imagine if each one moved to Utah? This could lead to the disclosure we have all been fighting for. Then what about shorty's new targets. What if the entire SHO list was replaced with all new victims? I bet there would be a bit more attention raised if that happened.

This could be a huge deal.

PS MORGAN STANLEY SUCKS!!!

Re: UT Governor Facing Extortion Over FTD Bill; Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By star the wonder pup on 5/25/2006 3:05 PM
You are so FOS, BoBo. Would you like to post the record of "gary's" OSTK messages on yahoo, or are you to much of a coward to back your claims?
Re: Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By bobo on 5/25/2006 3:10 PM
Star: I'm sorry - could you clarify the request? I don't understand what you are asking for. You want me to post over 2000 posts by Lambo? Why? Why not google them?
Re: UT Governor Facing Extortion Over FTD Bill; Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By P. Lubell on 5/25/2006 3:13 PM
That vacation in Utah sounds really nice. Maybe I'll move my company there. Let's get that e-mail for the gov. so we can all thank him and give him our best efforts to make it out to his wonderful state. Charlie Munger from Berkshire Hathaway also had some very nice things to say about the people of Utah.
Re: Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By bobo on 5/25/2006 3:37 PM
Star: Here's the complete list of his posts from the very first ones:

http://tinyurl.com/hgrqx
Re: Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By bobo on 5/25/2006 3:42 PM
Actually, that is not the complete list. It is only for the last 6 months. For many, many others you will have to use another search engine...
Re: Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By star the wonder pup on 5/25/2006 4:00 PM
I was talking about today, bobo. And why do none of your stories ever have attributable sources?
Re: Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By snoozern on 5/25/2006 4:04 PM
Just sent the following to Mr. Pollock

Dear Sir,

I enjoyed your article.

I’m not sure how effective your proposed disclosure requirement would be but it is certainly a vast improvement over what we have now.

I hope you choose to follow up on the subject in greater depth and explore some surrounding ideas about the “short and distort” players and victims in the market.

I invite you to look at www.thesanitycheck.com. You may be amused, or hopefully interested, by the ideas that fly around that site.

Best Regards,
Rick
Re: Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By lol on 5/25/2006 5:44 PM
Lambo has 1801 posts on OSTK's Yahoo board
You have to use the new Beta type board search to get all his posts.

The rest of this has been deleted, as part of the bug with the SW is lengthy posts with too many characters seem to trigger the weird message wrap phenom...
Re: Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By dave on 5/25/2006 4:19 PM
This article on silver IOU's applies to the stock market. Imagine a customer at brokerage A naked shorted to brokerage B and a customer at brokerage B naked shorted to brokerage A.

They don't care that their are two customers that are owed shares. From their point of view, the transactions netted to zero.

"But you don’t often see two convoys simultaneously moving in both directions! After all, bankers have learned how to cross out liabilities at the clearing house a long time ago."

"In less time than the blink of an eye promises to deliver have become worthless."

http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1148581694.php
Re: Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By Niel Storts on 5/25/2006 4:56 PM
Can't blame the limp fool for trying to deny being lilgw. After all, who would admit being a brain dead shill whore for a hedge fund manager that was soon to be turned out by his new "roommate" Rastus. Have a nice evening.
Re: UT Gov Feeling WS Heat; Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By Majordanger on 5/25/2006 6:18 PM
A Nevada Judge, A Marin California Judge, A Utah Govenor, and Arizona, that last state that requires paper stocks certificates .

Does anybody else see a geographical trend here?
It seems the further from that Wall Street you get.. the cleaner the air becomes...
and the straighter the lines between right and wrong are drawn.
And you can actually read about it in the local paper .

Keep this ball alive, Bobo.

Re: UT Gov Feeling WS Heat; Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By tbs_theman on 5/25/2006 6:32 PM
I've got to hear an interview with any broker / dealers / banks who pull out of Utah.

Q: Why did you pull out of Utah?

B/D: Well, we were cheating the investors blind, and their legislature thought we should be fined. Who do those bastrds think they are?

Q: Uh, that sounds illegal.

B/D: How could it be illegal? We've been doing it for years. The SEC grandfathered what we did before.

Q: So, what's next?

B/D: We'll petition to have every Utah company delisted.

Q: Kind of drastic.

B/D: Nobody is going to tell us we can't cheat investors... uh, I mean, tell us how to run our business...

Re: UT Gov Feeling WS Heat; Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By mfairview on 5/25/2006 6:43 PM
Time for some comic relief Bob. Break open the mspaint will ya?
Re: UT Gov Feeling WS Heat; Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By oldfeller on 5/25/2006 7:13 PM
This good news from Utah is proof that a few people can create awareness in others that creates a grassroots movement that creates enlightenment in many which creates changes that effect everyone whether they know it or not. A digital handshake (or pawshake?) to all, we are reproducing like bunnies. I`ve bored, irritated, and pestered some friends and family by forwarding them articles about this subject for a long time but happy to say they now know about it and are responding by telling others and holding their representatives accountable.
Re: UT Gov Feeling WS Heat; Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By adnan and naked shorting on 5/25/2006 7:15 PM
Naked shorting / terrorism / treason:

"Last month the Securities and Exchange Commission charged Khashoggi and Ramy Al Batrawi, his lieutenant for the past 20 years, with stock fraud in U.S. District Court for Central California. The men are accused of orchestrating a $130 million fraud involving the stock price of GenesisIntermedia."

http://madcowprod.com/
Re: UT Gov Feeling WS Heat; Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By adnan and naked shorting on 5/25/2006 7:31 PM
Further to the last post...

Adnan brought down MJM clearing a few weeks after 911 revealing a massive naked shorting scam.

For some reason, the SEC can't find him even though he was once on the front page of Time Magazine.
Re: UT Gov Feeling WS Heat; Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By bush-lay on 5/25/2006 8:10 PM
The Democrats and Republicans are equally corrupt.

I post this as to why no politician wants to touch naked shorting. The corruption goes deep.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0708042lay1.html?link=eaf
Re: UT Gov Feeling WS Heat; Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By snoozern on 5/25/2006 9:12 PM
The link to the article on WS extorting the Gov of Utah didn't work.

Here is one that might:
http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_145195001.html

Regards,
Rick
Re:Star the wonder By captdale2 on 5/25/2006 10:20 PM
Give it a rest puppy. Your out of your league trying to bash the bunny. Just try keeping up. You can do it . Just actually read what is written and actually go to the sites listed and read for yourself. Not hard. you can do it. Come on, I'm counting on you. Just make the effort.
Re: Great Article On Market Manipulation; By rvac106 on 5/26/2006 12:39 AM
to:APollock@aei.org

re: your piece on Undisclosed Interests.

A very nice piece, about a very nasty subject.

If you would, consider this.

A large position is obtained by a professional short selling concern.

A highly visible (Wall Street Journal) article detailing information that is neither timely, nor relevant to the processes of the company is released.

A number of lawsuits (Milberg-Weiss) are prominently announced in print and online journals, within hours of the aforementioned WSJ article.

An informal investigation by the SEC is announced, within days of the above actions.

An FOIA request reveals an inordinately high number of Failures to Deliver on the stock during this particular time period.

The stock PPS falls approximately 50%, from a position in the mid $60’s to a position in the mid $30’s, on volume running at times 20X average.

The SEC is only a small but very effective part of a manipulative strategy employed by certain related parties operating freely in our markets.

The company in the crosshairs on this particular occasion is NFI. The period of time was March – April, of 2004.

The fundamentals of the company never wavered, never faltered, never changed. And, they kept their mouths shut, just like a good little company is “supposed” to do, when attacked by a criminal conspiracy. We are thrilled by the lawsuits commenced by Overstock and Biovail. We are encouraged by your article.

Please visit WWW.thesanitycheck.com, for lots more information on this subject. I know you have access to all this info, but, it’s convenient to have a lot of it one place.

Thanking you again for your excellent work, I remain,

Sincerely,

RVAC
Re: Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By Star the wonder pup on 5/26/2006 6:58 AM
Star is becoming abusive and insulting, while contributing nothing of value to this thread. For some reason he feels that I should clog my own blog with a list of Lambo's posts from yesterday. Why, is unknown. He also doesn't care for my lack of attribution - but evinces no problem with all the financial journalists who quote unnamed sources all the time.

I'm done with Star. His posts will be deleted automatically from here on out.

Apologies for the unpleasantness. Bobo
Re: UT Gov Feeling WS Heat; Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By InTHeKnow on 5/26/2006 2:31 AM
Star you are a naked short selling bashing scumbag from RagingBull (thrown off for multiple aliasis).
Re: UT Gov Feeling WS Heat; Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By Morganbegood on 5/26/2006 2:35 AM
If the large brokerage firms like Morgan Stanley are doing everything by the book why would you protest a law that protects investors..Sounds to me like your breaking laws and ripping off innocent people. So your not gonna do business in a state that wont allow fraud ya that makes alot of sense...
Re: UT Gov Feeling WS Heat; Great Article On Market Manipulation; 'lilGW Travails Continue... By lenofus on 5/26/2006 3:10 AM
So Wall St. won't do business in Utah. Can anybody come up with a downside to this?

If you've got a good idea, you'll get money. And if you don't get from the criminals, you won't be forced out of business. Now what's the problem?

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