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Mark Cuban Misses The Point - Again.

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Posted by:   bobo 4/3/2006 11:00 PM

Mark wrote another one today where all the cliches are advanced - just run your company and eventually you will prevail over the shorts, naked short selling is no big deal, if there were a lot of naked shorts he wouldn't be able to get a borrow - virtually every canard we are accustomed to, all rolled up into one masterpiece. You can view it here.

I had a few minutes, so I posted a response to his blog, which can be found below.

-------------

Mark.

I think I can help you with at least one example:

NFI

We now have the actual level of naked shorted shares from 2004 to 2006, posted at www.TheSanityCheck.com - in my last few blogs.

The data is from the SEC, acquired under a FOIA request.

First, a little background. You flippantly remark that the stock price has stayed flat for the last few years, so what is the big deal? Well, for starters, their earnings have about doubled since April of 04. That is when we first have data.

So we have a company that has consistently posted higher earnings, doubling them from 03 to 05, and yet the stock price is the same. Does that strike anyone as odd?

Let's turn to the FOIA data next. We see in October of 04, that the number of fails had grown from not very many to 12.5% of all issued shares. That doesn't include the legitimate short interest, which that month was 11.3 million shares (around 25 million outstanding) - meaning that more than 50% of all outstanding shares had been shorted legitimately, or failed (3.143 million fails that month).

Mark, do you think 12.5% of the total outstanding shares being undelivered, i.e. frauds, is significant and impactful?

Those are shares for which investor money was taken, and yet no shares were delivered. Well over $100 million that month, in only one stock. Of fake, undelivered shares, where sales transactions were processed, and money was taken, and yet no share were delivered. And the sales had the same depressive impact as though they were genuine.

Do you honestly want to take the position that is no big deal?

If 12.5% of Dell’s computers weren’t shipped for months from payment date, while they waited for the price of DRAM to drop, or OSTK took money and failed to deliver 12.5% of the time, preferring to wait weeks or months for the price of the ordered product to drop, and yet used the money to generate interest, would that be OK with you? Would you write a blog about how it was no big deal to take orders and money for something time sensitive, that the law said had to be delivered within 3 days, and yet which they found they could make an additional 20% on by just breaking the law for a couple or 3 months – would that be contemptible, or savvy business, in your mind? You know, no big deal?

How about we take 12.5% of your net worth and redistribute it to me, and we can chitty chat about how it is no big deal? No? No takers?

With NFI, we see the price rise as the fails decrease, and then bam, big spike back up and the shares drop through the floor again. What a coincidence.

Same pattern in 05 - at one point, while you and I were arguing and you were taking the position that fails weren't a significant problem, over 5% of the company's shares were FTD.

Here's my issue with you. You are smart, and you understand the markets, and yet you claim things that are false - the FOIA proves that, unless you are taking the position that 5-12.5% of a company's shares, essentially counterfeited, is no big deal.

You continue to advance the notion that if a company just delivers good results the shorts will be hosed - Mark, NFI has increased earnings by about a factor of 4 since the shorts got into this, and paid out an additional $15+ per share in dividends, and the stock is below where it was when earnings were 50% of what they are. So your contention, when tested, is provably false, or at least badly flawed.

Let's review the contentions: 1) There is no significant naked short selling problem. Huh. But there is. And the FOIA numbers prove it. 2) Just perform, and the stock price will come up. Wrong. Again, NFI proves it. So does CALM. So do a host of others.

Additionally, you seem to be unclear on the way some NSS works. Try this: Big clearing broker is willing to do a locate, versus an actual borrow, for you, and charge you 25% for the priviledge. You say OK, and then the broker just desks the trade, never borrowing, and simply selling it from trading desk a to b. You are now being charged 25% for the broker to desk the trade.

Option B, the broker fails in the market, and waits for the price to go down further (he knows it is likely to as a number of big hedge funds are working it over). That is what happened to Byrne when he bought 150K shares and it took over 2 months to settle. Those are FTDs - or maybe they aren't, or rather don't show up on the list. Why? Because the broker did an ex-clearing arrangement, where he agrees with the buying broker to go direct between the two houses, bypassing the system - and if it takes a few months to settle, hey, we're all friends. Again, you are still paying 25%, so why wouldn't he?

And that doesn't count the myriad number of other ways you could achieve the same thing. Try calling around in Canada, or Malaysia - if you are a significant hedge fund, you can naked short through those venues literally to your heart's content. Or go read the "Experts Speak Out" section of TheSanityCheck.com, where Dr. Trimbath provides two simple, easy steps to launder money and use the same pool of dollars to move blocks and depress the price, always trading between related parties, so the same dollars and shares are endlessly recycled.

Or if you like, I can get you the web address of a company that will process your trades and allow you to drive the price through the floor using the ECNs, and then allow you to cancel most of the trades after the trading day is done - for a small vig.

Mark, again, this is a complex issue. One thing that everyone understands is that over the last 20 years, Wall Street has demonstrated that every sort of imaginably crookery is not only condoned, but actively pursued.

When you have the former head of the NYSE taking the 5th for fear of incriminating himself when asked about abusive and illegal trading, you have a big problem. When you have everything from exactly the sort of organized network of abuse Byrne is describing exposed in the Drexel/Milken/Boesky days, to the literally dozens of examples of various and sundry Wall Street larcenies since then, how can you take your position with a straight face?

That you take the position that none of these data points matter, or exist, is troubling, and inexplicable using benign reasoning.

------------

Now folks, I'm not trying to bag on Mark. But it seems like we are one year further down the road, with a ton more data, and guys like Mark are acting as though we haven't learned a thing. That is odd in the extreme. We now KNOW the FTD in NFI has been abusive for long periods, we now KNOW of myriad ways to scam the system and move the FTDs off the books, we KNOW that there are imbalances in OSTK that are egregious, we KNOW that Byrne couldn't get his shares for months due to exactly the mechanism I describe, and yet Mark is arguing as though none of that was known.

Why, is my question.

Copyright ©2006 Bob O'Brien
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Comments (21)
Re: Mark Cuban Misses The Point - Again. By justanoldfog on 4/4/2006 12:36 PM
Cuban is a "twerp". He spouts out information that he thinks are "facts" and hasn't got a clue as to what is real and what is just smoke and mirrors.
Bunny Man, you have done another great service to the cause of "elimination of NSS" by taking on his nonsense. My hats off to you again for having the patience to deal with him again and again and again. It's like the guy has no way to collect and process information on his own.
Makes about as much sense as some of the comments he makes about other NBA players after he trades them to another team. The guy has no sense of "fair play" or concern for the other guy at all... What's in it for me must be his motto.

Anyway, keep up the great work. The past three weeks have been exciting to see all of this start to come to light. Not sure where it started, but your work here has been a big part of that. The "60 Minutes" piece helped as well.......

later, foggy.....
Re: Mark Cuban Misses The Point - Again. By I_M_SPARTACUS on 4/4/2006 12:41 PM
Bobo- Why waste your time trying to educate a fool. Cuban has too much money in his ears to hear you and understand. He has an agenda without facts and believes that because he made some big money once that he now knows everything about everything. He even claims to know that Patrick Byrne is lending out his shares.That statement is criminal at best. Remember when he was interviewed and explained his "short position" in NFI when he was actually net long? Yuk yuk What dork.
Re: Mark Cuban Misses The Point - Again. By dave on 4/4/2006 12:49 PM
Cuban obviously knows all about naked shorting. He just doesn't want them to ban it as it makes him money at our expense.

I wonder if the following was ever repealed (or was it a 1932 April fools joke?):

http://www.nysedata.com/nysedata/asp/factbook/viewer_interactive.asp?hidCategory=4

September 21, 1931 The New York Stock Exchange suspended short selling, removing the ban on September 23.

Ferbruary 18, 1932 Members prohibited from lending customers' securities after April 1, 1932, without separate authorization in writing.

Re: Mark Cuban Misses The Point - Again. By bobo on 4/4/2006 1:00 PM
Dave - that is interesting. Maybe shoot them an email and ask when that was repealed...
Re: Mark Cuban Misses The Point - Again. By dave on 4/4/2006 1:02 PM
More info:

http://www.columbia.edu/~cj88/papers/shortliq.pdf
Re: Mark Cuban Misses The Point - Again. By troydian on 4/4/2006 1:04 PM
cuban will have an all star lineup in the pen cramer cohen rocker greenburg with a bench full of second string players..... soon
Re: Mark Cuban Misses The Point - Again. By dave on 4/4/2006 1:14 PM
"The new requirement was advertised as giving investors control over the use of their shares, but the rule was also designed to stem the tide of investors taking physical delivery of their share certificates. The new requirement was announced on February 18, 1932, well in advance of the effective date of April 1, 1932."

http://www.columbia.edu/~cj88/papers/shortliq.pdf
Re: Mark Cuban Misses The Point - Again. By Alan DeGracia on 4/4/2006 3:02 PM
Bob,Great write up.
Mr Cuban has got to be incrediblystupid or he is involved in this conspiracy big time AND OWES SOMEONE.
Re: Mark Cuban Misses The Point - Again. By jcline on 4/4/2006 3:02 PM
Let's just start building houses........ less 12.5% of the square footage. Wonder if MC would like to buy THAT house? Or maybe he would rather make a bank withdrawl (minus the 12.5% of course). How would it feel to order an RX ( minus 12.5% of the pills.... sorry... those days you just go without)

Just settle the trades.......... STOP the FRAUD
Re: Mark Cuban Misses The Point - Again. By bobo on 4/4/2006 4:08 PM
How about if 12.5% of the blood reserved for his use in case of an accident was the wrong type, or had HIV?

The notion that these levels of fails are innocent is idiocy of the lowest order.
Re: Mark Cuban Misses The Point - Again. By rtway1 on 4/4/2006 7:04 PM
I smell a rat. This guy has the scruples of Cramer.
Re: Mark Cuban Misses The Point - Again. By jcline on 4/4/2006 7:11 PM
Or ....How 'bout if they just couldn't deliver 12.5% of the blood.....
I could not agree with you more!

About 3 years ago....I asked Terri Reicher, Esq. of the NASD General Counsel's office if she would like to buy a home from me ... but never get to move into it. To boot... she would then find out I'd sold that same home to 150 others...and they were all trying to get the house delivered. I said, don't worry.... it's all OK... your acct says you got the house... no biggie!!!

I asked her if she wanted to do business with me....... She said she didn't want to .... duhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

It is not rocket science....6 years Plus here trying to stop the fraud.....thank GOD for a team of folks who want justice.

Just settle the trades.... STOP THE FRAUD!
Re: Mark Cuban Misses The Point - Again. By n-tres-ted on 4/4/2006 7:23 PM
bobo, you might note that a 5% ownership interest in a public company requires filing notice with the SEC, including disclosure of intentions regarding control, etc. The shares failed re NFI are not insignificant by any definition, certainly not under the securities laws.

On the Grasso matter of taking the Fifth, why has the SEC been so circumspect all these years in allowing the specialists on the NYSE floor to pursue their little idiosyncratic "practices" without enforcement scrutiny? And Grasso, as the godfather who keeps the system running smoothly in the specialists' interests, walks away with a compensation package in the hundreds of millions. The purpose of the SEC is to smash every little guy who sticks his head up and draws attention to fraudulent practices?
Re: Mark Cuban Misses The Point - Again. By Granny on 4/5/2006 4:44 AM
<>

Next time I buy a house I am bringing my tape measure.

Re: Mark Cuban Misses The Point - Again. By bobo on 4/5/2006 8:09 AM
I tried to post this, but for some odd reason Mark's blog won't accept any more of my posts. Perhaps some kind soul can post it on my behalf, just in case the bobo filter has been activated:

James:

Do try to follow along. MREITS - all MREITS - by the structure of their business models, require regular raises of additional capital, usually via secondaries.

If the price of the stock is 130% depressed then the company has to issue 130% more shares to raise the same dollars. That materially impacts the company's operations.

So your point, like so many of your others, is provably false.

Additionally, naked short selling is illegal, in all but limited instances.

The FOIA data shows in a compelling manner that NFI has been the victim of a high level of naked short selling for years, unchecked by regulators, and resulting in a chronic depression in the share price.

There are other possible explanations - divine retribution, many worlds hypothesis, etc. - but the most obvious is that someone is actively manipulating the stock, and that FTDs are a big part of the manipulation. All one has to do is look at the data to test and support that hypothesis.

I understand that your agenda is to argue that breaking the law in a sustained basis by engaging in massive FTDing is not bad.

It gets pretty hard to argue with a straight face when you are talking numbers like 12.5% of the outstanding shares.

That you continue tells me that you must financially benefit from the practice in some way. That is really how it always lines up - those financially benefiting from the practice are for it, those being harmed are against it. For it are hedge funds, participants, Wall Street journalists, co-opted politicians. Against it are companies, investors, regulators.

I would suggest that you consider the following: A share is a parcel of rights. Among those is the right to vote, the right to a dividend (and the preferential tax treatment thereof), and a slice of the company's equity.

What is advertised for sale, and what is bought, in the stock market, is stock - not an IOU with none of the rights of a legitimate share, which give the share its value.

When money is exchanged by a buyer to a seller for a share of stock, to deliver something wholly lacking 100% of the rights the buyer purchased, is fraud. That is what it is called when you take money for item A, and then fail to deliver it, replacing the item with an IOU.

To put it into the most basic terms, so you and your ilk don't get all fuzzy headed and confused, imagine you paid $20K for a Rolex President as a gift for your dad. He opens the box on his birthday, and instead of a watch, there is an IOU from the jeweler indicating that he owes you a Rolex. Outraged, you take it back to him, and he says that it is equivalent to a Rolex, really, as he is good for it at some undetermined time in the future, and that it is readily sell-able, just like a real Rolex is.

Fine. You want to sell it back to him, and get your $20K back. Ahhh, he says, but Rolexes are not selling for $20K anymore, as there is a huge glut of them in the market. Now they are selling for $12K, and that is all he can give you.

How can that be, you ask - that was a limited edition President, and they only made 2000 of them.

Well, he responds, the price has plummeted because 30K of them have been sold. So now they are worth $12K.

James, you are either brain dead (doubtful) or are trying to advance an apologist agenda that argues that an illegal manipulative trading practice isn't really hurting anyone (likely). Why you would argue this is up for grabs. My example is exactly what is happening in the equity markets, and the sort of FTDs that we have seen with NFI are both hugely damaging, and illegal. You might want to consider this analysis of the FTDs and the conclusion reached: http://www.cxoadvisory.com/blog/

So, to recap: FTDs are illegal except for limited bona-fide market making. The NFI FTDs are not bona-fide market making, as evidenced by their duration and steady climb (see study above). Thus, they are an artifact of a deliberate manipulation. Stock manipulation is illegal. Arguing that stock manipulation is good, as it allows the gods of the market (whoever you deem superior) to rectify absurd valuations (as defined by you) is a puerile and absurd position - like saying murder is OK for vigilantes as they can "tell" who "deserves" it.

I would suggest if this is the best your reasoning can do, that you are in the deep end of the pool without a floaty, and would do well listening more, and spouting inanities less.

Respectfully,

AKA Bobo
Re: Mark Cuban Misses The Point - Again. By claude on 4/5/2006 8:34 AM
I'm trying to post it. It's only letting me put it up one paragraph at a time. I had to change rolex to fancy watch-- that was the problem.

Claude
Re: Mark Cuban Misses The Point - Again. By Claude on 4/5/2006 9:17 AM
Hi Bob,

After doing some googling, James R. Brownfield(of Sarasota, FL) is part of the lil GW/It's Strange crew. He runs the nakedshortlie blog which is almost never updated. I would just give up on him.

Claude
Re: Mark Cuban Misses The Point - Again. By smuopr8r on 4/5/2006 9:50 AM
My assist on the Mark Cuban front:

67. Posted Apr 5, 2006, 1:41 PM ET by smuopr8r
Puleeez. The name calling is simply pathetic. Bob and Tommy post the actual Freedom of Information Act (thank you Congress for that legislation) data clearly illustrating the abusive 3 million share failed-to-deliver condition of NFI during 2004, and all you can say is "Oh, dat's jus too bad for da poor widdle stock holders who can't stand to see the pwice go down." Yes, we individual investors have to live with poor investiment decisions, true that. But so should the hedgefund managers who short a stock for which the price goes up! But they don't, and we all know it now. Instead, they break the law. They collude to sell shares for which there are none to borrow, to flood the market with counterfeit sales transactions and bring the price down, and pay-off hacks in the media to say bad things about the stock for them, all so that they can build a hockey rink in their back yard. I feel very sorry for the elderly MREIT investors who thought the "income" real-estate investment would be safer than some risky "growth" portfolio investment. For their sakes, the FTD's should be stopped, the hedgefunds forced to buy back in and settle the trades, and then, just maybe, they old folks living off of a portfolio of income generating companies can have another day's reason for happiness. Maybe this whole issue is just simply above your heads. Or maybe you just aren't willing to admit you're on the wrong side of something. Or maybe, just maybe, your trading decisions are just as bad as the hedgefund whose short is losing money and your just as pathetic in you manner of supporting their position as they are in breaking the law to turn their bad trade around. Doesn't matter, none of this does. Your baseless retorts won't hold-up jack in court or with prosecutors now starting to bring this issue and the abusive hedgefunds to justice. Good luck with your "first right of denial/slam the credibility of the whistle-blowers" campaign, you're gonna need it. Mark, on a personal note, I know people who think it's "fun" to play Devil's advocate with emotional issues without really understanding much of what they are talking about. They invariably end up having to lie to cover their ignorance, and are the loneliest people I know.
Re: Mark Cuban Misses The Point - Again. By bobo on 4/5/2006 1:13 PM
Brownsfield is addled. His reasoning is sophomoric, and frankly even he doesn't sound like he believes his own rhetoric.

If the best they can do in the face of hard evidence that an abusive problem exists is try to excuse the behavior of the miscreants, then you are dealing with an apologist with an agenda rather than an intellectually honest debator.

Notice that none of the "it's all innocent fails" crowd is here trying to sell that - kinda hard when you are staring at hard proof of 12.5% of a company's total outstanding shares being failed.
Re: Mark Cuban Misses The Point - Again. By adegracia1950 on 4/5/2006 2:20 PM
After reading Mr Cuban's blog via the link above, I sent him an email.

I got a response.
Here it is with my original email.
Good or Bad, I got a response, gotta give him credit for that.

Alan

From: "Mark Cuban" Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert

Yeah, you got me

Dang


On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 6:25 pm, MAV Feedback wrote:
>
> IP: 24.59.131.157
> Name: Alan Degracia
> Email: adegracia1950@yahoo.com
> URL:
> Site: http://www.blogmaverick.com/
>
> Most incredible article on OSTK hypocrisy I have seen yet. With all the
> info out there on OSTK's illegal manipulation you still put out this
> tripe.
> The horse got out of the barn weeks ago and now you come up with this.
> You
> must be linked to the conspiracy and a marker was called in to rubber
> stamp
> the targeting of Patrick Pyrne. Is that all you can come up with,
> parroting
> some perps who got supoenas. I guess it is your first amemdment right
> to
> come across as an after the fact issuer of old news? Next we will see
> you
> on CNBC to revisit the issue again. I thank you for your support in
> keeping
> this issue in the spotlight.

Re: Mark Cuban Misses The Point - Again. By smuopr8r on 4/5/2006 9:12 PM
Too funny. From a poster identifying himself as James Brownfield:

"No, SMU, we're not going to deliver. At least, not until we're good and ready.

We can naked short Overstock, on our terms, legally, for as long as we want. Your focus on this minor annoyance, however, is misguided. You should be asking yourself why so many people like me are willing to commit our precious capital to a position that only generates profits when Overstock's share price declines."

Did I just see an apparent hedge fund manager admit illegitimate naked shorting (ignorance of the law is no excuse)?


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