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The DTCC wants to eliminate paper certificates - they're so messy, and icky, and stuff

Location: Blogs Bob O'Brien's Sanity Check Blog    
Posted by:   bobo 3/22/2006 11:00 AM

I was just sent this little slice of heaven in my email inbox. It is filled with smiling, fleshy faces promising a world of eternal happiness, and sunny days, and perfect health...if only we eliminate paper certificates.

Because the DTCC, which is owned by the exchanges and the brokers (and the exchanges really are the brokers - they are owned by the brokers as well), is getting ready to help us - some more.

Now, I admittedly am suspicious whenever Wall Street wants to "help" investors. Usually that is akin to the IRS helping one with taxes - the person being helped is usually far worse for it.

I'm particularly suspicious when the help being offered is to eliminate the single mechanism investors have to verify that their brokers aren't lying to them about the investors' ownership of stock. That kind of makes me nervous. Very nervous.

You think that might be because the DTCC lies?

We caught them lying when they claimed they had never been invited to the NASAA conference. We caught them lying when they invented statements and inserted them into Cam Funkhouser's mouth.

Dr. Byrne, CEO of OSTK, contends that they are lying through their teeth. Said so publicly, just recently.

No suit over that, BTW. Byrne went on Rob TV and called the DTCC an organization run by criminals, that was lying through its teeth, and invited them to sue him - and nothing. Not a peep.

Odd. Why wouldn't the DTCC sue Byrne, unless it wanted to avoid discovery, and exposure of its crookery? Maybe they want to avoid having to take the fifth, like Grasso recently had to, when questioned about the larcenous dealings of the specialists?

But anyhow, here they are with a warm offer of help.

Think of how helpful the Stock Borrow Program has been - consider the enormous assistance that not having to deliver shares has been for sellers intent upon driving the price of a stock through the floor. Very helpful, that DTCC. Very, very helpful.

And now, these beaming Stepford faces assure us that our world will be so much better without paper certificates - or as I like to call them, "proof of genuine shares."

We are invited to consider all the money companies will save by eliminating them. Actually, that doesn't help me much. We are also told that we won't be subjected to the annoyances of having to hassle with lost certificates. Actually, that doesn't help me much, either - I've never in my life sold stock and then failed to deliver it.

Upon consideration, the only people actually helped are the DTCC and their broker/owners. They can process more trades, faster, and there is no mechanism to replace the paper certificate as the ultimate proof that you own what you paid for.

If one was cynical, one could speculate that this would be the ultimate way to cure the fail to deliver problem - simply eliminate the only mechanism most have to prove ownership - and then we are all reliant upon the DTCC, and their broker/owners, to be honest.

You know, the brokers who are being fined constantly for crookery, and the DTCC, which has been caught in two lies by the Bunny, just recently.

Why do I feel like I have to check my wallet when I read stuff like this?

In fairness, the DRS promises to be a decent substitute - direct registration with the issuer. But here's my problem: The same liars and cheats that compose much of Wall Street will be in charge of that system, and at the end of the day, I don't have any proof like a paper certificate. None. Just someone's electronic word - from the pathological liars on Wall Street.

That's a problem. A big problem. That the DTCC has been able to ramrod this past all the states is frightening at a profound level.

When the DTCC wants to help you, my hunch is that it wants to help itself to your money.

Call it a gut feel.

 

Copyright ©2006 Bob O'Brien
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Comments (28)
Re: The DTCC wants to eliminate paper certificates - they're so messy, and icky, and stuff By dave on 3/23/2006 9:36 AM
I like Jill Considine's comments about DRS. She says that for investors that want to ensure their ownership is in their own name, they should use DRS.

Instead of registering the stock at the transfer agent in your own name, she thinks you should register it at the transfer agent in the name of Cede & Co. and they will keep track that they owe it to you.
Re: The DTCC wants to eliminate paper certificates - they're so messy, and icky, and stuff By bobo on 3/23/2006 9:40 AM
I wonder if they will use a condom?

Sorry. Couldn't resist. I am bad. I see that now. So is paper. Paper very bad, Bunny bad, DTCC good. They only lie when they need to...
Re: The DTCC wants to eliminate paper certificates - they're so messy, and icky, and stuff By questions on 3/25/2006 4:07 PM
I thought I heard or read the Delware has voted to allow companies to eliminate stock certificates and that Intel has done this....
Re: The DTCC wants to eliminate paper certificates - they're so messy, and icky, and stuff By rtway1 on 3/26/2006 12:02 PM
What I find rather strange is that I can ask my bank for a picture of a check I wrote by going on line and get to visually see that check and all the writing on it for free and within seconds. I can not see why this can not be done at DTCC, where a person could have visual proof that could be used as evidence if need be of the shares that they own. With the computer power of today, that would be no big thing.
Re: The DTCC wants to eliminate paper certificates - they're so messy, and icky, and stuff By mhelburn on 3/23/2006 9:48 AM
We are tossed the bone that the bond market is so efficient and it settles in seconds, then we see that counterfeit bonds have made their way into that market as the Refco mess with 550 million worth of fake bonds exposed so far. Electronic counterfeiting...the wave of the future. So clean and so efficient. The savings are so miniscule in the whole picture, the idea is ludicrous that people should give up the ability to hold their shares themselves.
Re: The DTCC wants to eliminate paper certificates - they're so messy, and icky, and stuff By RVAC106 on 3/23/2006 10:02 AM
They can have my 5,000 certificated shares any time they want. $350,000.00 should just about do it.

RVAC
Re: The DTCC wants to eliminate paper certificates - they're so messy, and icky, and stuff By rtway1 on 3/23/2006 10:10 AM
What is so pathetic that the general public doesn,t have a clue in this issue, because most have never seen a paper cert. except for their car, so to them it is a non issue. People have become apathetic and mentally lazy where they think big brother is their to protect them from cradle to grave only to find out they have been fodder to the select few that manipulate this country with the help of the media.
Re: The DTCC wants to eliminate paper certificates - they're so messy, and icky, and stuff By pinkice on 3/23/2006 10:16 AM
DTCC - put the AARP in charge of it!!! Let the feisty retirees keep the crooks on wall
street honest. paperless - reminds me of the debit card - who needs cash - until hackers get hold of the info on the computer systems and clean your account out and the bank crys out security breach! i can hear it now wall street crooks mass manipulating the FTD's and naked shorts all at the touch of a computer with no paperflow through. try auditing a paperless flow - only book entries.

Perhaps bonuses on Fraud Wall Street should be given in designated holding accounts which are only accessible via a debit card. Imagine the info from these cards are hijacked and the funds stolen by computer hackers! What is good for the goose is good for the gander. Let DTCC/broker dealers/hedgies cry foul and not be reimbursed! These groups need more then their wings clipped, they need harnessed and controlled.

Main Street America unite - bring justice to the crooks of Wall Street. Hold the DTCC accountable - meaning in paper and in writing - no paperless entries.
Fractional Reserves By crsqaguy on 3/23/2006 10:46 AM
It's really very simple bunny. They are trying to create a fractional reserve system just like the banks. Think of the good your shares could do if they had a multiplier attached to them. Works for money, why not securities. It's all the same really, isn't it.

Re: The DTCC wants to eliminate paper certificates - they're so messy, and icky, and stuff By robelita on 3/23/2006 10:51 AM
My comments to the SEC regarding the proposed rule change at the DTC:


File No. SR-DTC-2006-01


Any rule change at the DTC should include verifiable trade settlements to prevent Naked Short-Selling (NSS) and Failure-To-Deliver (FTD). Regulation SHO only IDENTIFIES which stocks are affected and requires ENFORCEMENT within the parameters of T+3 so that any trade NOT backed by traceable and verifiable securities becomes null and void returning the buyer and seller to their pre-trade positions. Furthermore, any sale NOT backed by legitimate securities should place the burden on the seller to explain IN WRITING TO THE SEC what event caused the transaction to fail. Without a satisfactory explanation the offending seller should be fined and/or barred from future sales of securities
Re: The DTCC wants to eliminate paper certificates - they're so messy, and icky, and stuff By Investletter.com on 3/23/2006 11:14 AM
Why T+3? Why not hinge it on instant settlement with no funds moving until securities are redmoved from seller and added to buyers account? At least it is some protection...maybe.
Re: The DTCC wants to eliminate paper certificates - they're so messy, and icky, and stuff By dave on 3/23/2006 11:30 AM
The buck stops with Jill Considine. Here history:

http://www.ny.frb.org/aboutthefed/orgchart/board/considine.html

"Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of The Depository Trust & Clearing Corporation and its subsidiaries (securities depository and clearing house) since January 1998. Prior to joining The Depository Trust Company, Ms. Considine served as the President of the New York Clearing House Association, L.L.C. from 1993 to 1998. Ms. Considine served as a Managing Director, Chief Administrative Officer and as a member of the Board of Directors of American Express Bank Ltd., from 1991 to 1993. Prior to that, Ms. Considine served as the New York State Superintendent of Banks from 1985 to 1991. Ms. Considine also serves as a director of the Atlantic Mutual Insurance Companies, The Interpublic Group of Companies, Inc. and the Federal Reserve Bank of New York"


I think Grasso is a good suspect at the NYSE.

We need to make this scandal personal.
Re: The DTCC wants to eliminate paper certificates - they're so messy, and icky, and stuff By robelita on 3/23/2006 11:31 AM
I would agree with that proposal but I'm working with the EXISTING T+3 settlement system.
Re: The DTCC wants to eliminate paper certificates - they're so messy, and icky, and stuff By dave on 3/23/2006 11:32 AM
Google:

" New York Clearing House Association, L.L.C"

Interesting reading.
Re: The DTCC wants to eliminate paper certificates - they're so messy, and icky, and stuff By robelita on 3/23/2006 11:36 AM
Dave,

Call me paranoid but when I see the Chair & CEO of the DTCC ALSO serving as a director of the Federal Reserve of NY my BS meter starts to spasm. This reinforces my earlier comments about the moneychangers.
Re: The DTCC wants to eliminate paper certificates - they're so messy, and icky, and stuff By Granny on 3/23/2006 11:38 AM
I really can’t blame them. Just look what trouble one rogue CEO can cause when he has his flock demand paper certificates to insure only the amount of stock issued is the amount of stock sold. The darned stock goes up $10 in 10 days. If this catches on and people demand stock transactions with legitimate shares only it could cause a bull stampede and destroy the whole revolving cash scam. You know, the one where they revolve your cash into their bank accounts. And what with Easter right around the corner and 3 carrot rings already on order.
Re: The DTCC wants to eliminate paper certificates - they're so messy, and icky, and stuff By Kevin on 3/23/2006 11:45 AM
I sent the DTCC an email suggesting it would not be in the best interest of an investor to rid ourselves of paper certificates and suggested they take a look at The Sanity Check should they need to do any research. I wonder if anyone over there has heard of The Sanity Check?
Re: The DTCC wants to eliminate paper certificates - they're so messy, and icky, and stuff By bobo on 3/23/2006 11:50 AM
The web logs indicate that the DTCC follows the site quite closely.
Re: The DTCC wants to eliminate paper certificates - they're so messy, and icky, and stuff By robelita on 3/23/2006 11:53 AM
Kevin,

Send your comment to the SEC-sending it to the DTCC only ensures it winds up in the dead file if not completely deleted.
Re: The DTCC wants to eliminate paper certificates - they're so messy, and icky, and stuff By smuopr8r on 3/23/2006 11:57 AM
I believe the issue to boil down to this: The system is already electronic. Somone needs to fix the electronic system that disallow trades to occur without paper to back them up.
Re: The DTCC wants to eliminate paper certificates - they're so messy, and icky, and stuff By n-tres-ted on 3/23/2006 12:29 PM
bobo,

I learned about the DTCC activities to ban all paper certificates last week when I followed one of your links to the DTCC site on the Trimbath/Shapiro hits. And I posted about it on one of the threads while the posting confusion was ongoing. Glad you smoked it out.
Re: The DTCC wants to eliminate paper certificates - they're so messy, and icky, and stuff By troydian on 3/23/2006 12:36 PM
this smells fishy..............."The Bond Market Association is pleased to accept this important responsibility," said Edward C. Forst, Chairman of the Bond Market Association and Chief Administrative Officer of Goldman Sachs & Co. "The Association is well-positioned to bring together market participants and coordinate the implementation of this emergency facility. It’s a great example of government and the private-sector working together.".......................................................is this the same golman saks that gave out 21 billion in bonuses..... 500.000$ avg per employee? http://www.bondmarkets.com/story.asp?id=2306

Re: The DTCC wants to eliminate paper certificates - they're so messy, and icky, and stuff By Granny on 3/23/2006 12:51 PM
From what I have heard don't go by that goldman sachs 21 billion bonus average. Some get millions, some get beans. It's all structured for the people at the top.

Here is an article about UBS
:
"Cole says he's just one of scores of Wall Street brokers being crushed lately by their employers, just for the sake of snatching away smaller batches of assets on the cheap.

The financial giants, he said, hire brokers "to bring in their book (of client assets), then get rid of them for any kind of reason they can find.

"They keep your book, and don't have to pay you six-figures anymore. Your book goes to one of the bigger boys."

http://www.nypost.com/business/61230.htm
Re: The DTCC wants to eliminate paper certificates - they're so messy, and icky, and stuff By mig on 3/23/2006 5:55 PM
This reminds me of the ATM machines. The banks sold that to the public for its ease and convienence. Plus the cost savings to the banks in reduced tellers needed. Now if you want to use an ATM you pay through the nose if it doesn't belong to your bank. Some banks will even charge a fee I've heard if you want to use a teller instead of an ATM.
Re: The DTCC wants to eliminate paper certificates - they're so messy, and icky, and stuff By InTheKnow on 3/23/2006 7:08 PM
We should eliminate paper certificates at the same time as the fat cat bonuses are paid out as IOU's!
Re: The DTCC wants to eliminate paper certificates - they're so messy, and icky, and stuff By mig on 3/23/2006 7:22 PM
MY bank wants to charge a fee for seeing an actual 'teller' over 3 times/ month if your balance is below a certain level! They also want to charge for over 3 'questions' a month! I know they get a lot of the revenue from 'fees', but isn't this a bit absurd?
Re: The DTCC wants to eliminate paper certificates - they're so messy, and icky, and stuff By justanoldfog on 3/24/2006 11:43 AM
This proposal reminds me a lot of how the banking system works with regards to your cash. You put your money in the bank and they keep track of it on your behalf. They never really keep all the cash on hand as that would be too cumbersome for the bank staff to handle. Instead they "move it around" and give you an "IOU" for the balance in your account. If you demand your money you can normally get it, since not everyone is demanding their "cash" at the same time and at the same branch office.
Akin that now to the certificates. The "DTCC" holds your shares (cash) in an account on your behalf and allows you to "trade" it or use it as you see fit based upon your "Broker" allowing you certain trade activities. While this seems to work nicely on paper, in the real world you do not have the "Cash"/Certificates. Seems like it would not be like a bank at all, but a total sham on market securities.....

Must be something wrong with my logic here, or this proposal is just a cover up for a bigger problem at the DTCC????,,,,..... grin.
foggy..
Re: The DTCC wants to eliminate paper certificates - they're so messy, and icky, and stuff By rick on 3/24/2006 2:27 PM
Hello Bobo,
I'm waiting for a transfer to go through then I'll be requesting certificates. Where do you store them?

rick

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